7% of Australian Catholic priests

Originally posted by Eladar
OK if you want to make distincyion betweem bi sexual men and homosexual, I will agree with you that between those two groups there is no reason to assume different rates.

I think there is according to the study that I cited. Either way it does not really matter.

What interests me is if there is a proposed materialistic basis which predisposes
paedophiles to act the way they do, whether environmental or biological then this
presents problems for those who advocate such a stance for how can one be held
accountable if the so called 'mental disorder', is caused by biology or environmental
factors over which one has little or no control?

https://neuroanthropology.net/2010/05/10/inside-the-mind-of-a-pedophile/

This appears to me to present an insurmountable problem for materialists.

Originally posted by Eladar
From what I have been able to find there are about 3 000 catholic priests in Australia so we are talking roughly 210 pedophiles in this story.

4444 alleged complainants. Reckoned to be some 20 000 incidents but only a fraction actually report these abuses.
Before 1980 there were hardly any reports of this nature despite an ongoing problem since 1950 or so

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I think there is according to the study that I cited. Either way it does not really matter.

What interests me is if there is a proposed materialistic basis which predisposes
paedophiles to act the way they do, whether environmental or biological then this
presents problems for those who advocate such a stance for how can one be held
accou ...[text shortened]... ind-of-a-pedophile/

This appears to me to present an insurmountable problem for materialists.

One is always responsible for actig out or not acting out on desires. If one feels that there is really no reason to, then one just has to not get caught.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
4444 alleged complainants. Reckoned to be some 20 000 incidents but only a fraction actually report these abuses.
Before 1980 there were hardly any reports of this nature despite an ongoing problem since 1950 or so

Just one pedophile shatters so many lives. It should be an automatic death sentence.

Originally posted by Eladar
One is always responsible for actig out or not acting out on desires. If one feels that there is really no reason to, then one just has to not get caught.

I myself reject any kind of genetic predisposition as a causation arguing that if we allow it then we become mere slaves of our genes, however I am not arguing on the basis of what I profess.

The article that I cited stated that there is an environmental and/or a biological reason for why paedophiles act the way they do. There is even a comment by a former paedophile in the comments section where he states that being caught was the best thing that ever happened to him and he could then seek rehabilitation and treatment. He states that he had NO control over the fantasies.

This must of sheer necessity present a problem for how can we condemn someone for thinking certain thoughts over which they have little or no control. Please note that we are not even talking about action, but on thinking. There is documented cases where the State has prosecuted individuals for entertaining these kind of thoughts even though the individual was receiving treatment and chose not to act on them.

e.g Doe v. City of Lafayette, Indiana

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I myself reject any kind of genetic predisposition as a causation arguing that if we allow it then we become mere slaves of our genes, however I am not arguing on the basis of what I profess.

The article that I cited stated that there is an environmental and/or a biological reason for why paedophiles act the way they do. There is even a comment ...[text shortened]... l was receiving treatment and chose not to act on them.

e.g Doe v. City of Lafayette, Indiana

Pedophiles do not have a good retraining rate.

Would you say that a person who fantasizes about killing and eating human body parts while wearing his victim's skin deserves mercy because he can't control his fantasy? Of course this is after he has been caught living out the fantasy.

Originally posted by Eladar
Pedophiles do not have a good retraining rate.

Would you say that a person who fantasizes about killing and eating human body parts while wearing his victim's skin deserves mercy because he can't control his fantasy? Of course this is after he has been caught living out the fantasy.

I am not arguing that thoughts don't lead to action, in many cases they do, however, how can we criminalise someone for thinking? even if it is obscene and lewd thoughts?

If you blindfolded someone and gave them a gun and led them to a place and asked them to shoot an imaginary person what crime would they be guilty of?

I don't know what the statistics are for rehabilitation.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I am not arguing that thoughts don't lead to action, in many cases they do, however, how can we criminalise someone for thinking? even if it is obscene and lewd thoughts?

If you blindfolded someone and gave them a gun and led them to a place and asked them to shoot an imaginary person what crime would they be guilty of?

I don't know what the statistics are for rehabilitation.

Just for thinking of course not. I am talking about people who acted out, like these Catholic priests.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I am not arguing that thoughts don't lead to action, in many cases they do, however, how can we criminalise someone for thinking?

As a complete aside, as I am not wishing to derail this specific conversation, it's worth noting that sonship's Christian notion of "perfect justice" - upon which his entire concept of "god"/justice is planted - is torture in flames for eternity for someone for NOT thinking something.

Originally posted by FMF
As a complete aside, as I am not wishing to derail this specific conversation, it's worth noting that sonship's Christian notion of "perfect justice" - upon which his entire concept of "god"/justice is planted - is torture in flames for eternity for someone for NOT thinking something.

His position is completely incongruous with a loving beneficent and merciful God. He needs to ask himself how we are supposed to reconcile this with his vision of eternal torment.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
His position is completely incongruous with a loving beneficent and merciful God. He needs to ask himself how we are supposed to reconcile this with his vision of eternal torment.

What do you think happens to everyone who is not a Jehovah's Witness?
Me for example...

Originally posted by Eladar
Just one pedophile shatters so many lives. It should be an automatic death sentence.

I can't call anyone for a death sentence in all honesty.
I don't see people as evil, just ignorant and mis-guided.
Most criminals if not all justify their behaviour in their minds, so I see a kind of mental problem that the usual "corrections" system just doesn't seem to address.

Originally posted by divegeester
What do you think happens to everyone who is not a Jehovah's Witness?
Me for example...

I wonder if robbie carrobie will deal with this question by saying something like "I have no idea what you mean by 'happens'". 😉

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I myself reject any kind of genetic predisposition as a causation ....

I have met men in Zambia that claim that they are incapable of resisting the urge to have sex. I have also me thousands of overweight people who simultaneously claimed they did not desire to be overweight. Is the desire to have sex or the desire to eat not 'causation' in your mind?
I personally consider them to be part causes. Causation does not have a single source. I only absolve people of guilt if it is clear that they had zero conscious input into the event.

Originally posted by Eladar
By God's.

Oh, right, so nothing important then. I thought you were talking about something relevant.