A beautiful prayer

Originally posted by twhitehead
I didn't 'blame God of lying'. I stated that according to you, he lied. 'Blame' is completely the wrong word here.

[b] secondly technically saying "I said" that "despite widespread suffering the majority of people do not get closer to your God".

Uhm no! You said so.
You essentially did say it. Not in those words, but you did say it, and you hav ...[text shortened]... n. So yes, if what you claim is true, then blame is in order. Luckily, what you say is not true.[/b]

Okay - let me try once more...

My original post was "Correction, a lot of people suffer, irrespective of religion!" and your reply was "Interestingly God lied to you as you clearly admit now that despite widespread suffering the majority of people do not get closer to your God.".

That is very far from what I've "essentially so called" said.

The original post is clear on this "Suffering draws you apart from worldly cares and brings you closer to me.".

I did however state multiple times "that the majority of people go through suffering themselves, cause they chose do so". So I want to say YES that IF you do not know or believe in God, your suffering will not get you closer to God cause He obviously doesn't exist to you.

The reason for suffering is never pointless (if you are a child of God), its to bring you closer to Him and I am standing on this point now.

Originally posted by Nicksten
Okay - let me try once more...

My original post was "Correction, a lot of people suffer, irrespective of religion!" and your reply was "Interestingly God lied to you as you clearly admit now that despite widespread suffering the majority of people do not get closer to your God.".

That is very far from what I've "essentially so called" said.

In what way is it 'far from' what you said? What exactly is different in meaning?
What do you dispute having said:
1. That a lot of people suffer regardless of religion.
2. That God said (in the OP) that the reason for not relieving suffering was to draw people closer to him.

I am honestly failing to see what you are disputing.

The reason for suffering is never pointless (if you are a child of God), its to bring you closer to Him and I am standing on this point now.
So what is the reason for suffering if you are not a child of God? Why does God choose not to relieve the suffering of those who are not children of God?

Originally posted by Nicksten

Very well explained. I sometimes do not always have the right words at the right time. It is hard to try and explain to twhitehead ...

LOL !
That did really cause me to laugh out.
Tell me about it!

Been tryin for many years Nicksten.

... that suffering is not an act of masochism from God.
Even as a Christian I don't always understand why I have to hurt/suffer so much but I know those are the times I spend seeking Him more often - its just what I do.

If God was only the God of people who didn't suffer, He would not be much of a God, would He ?

Since the resurrection of Christ and His ascension, Christians have not been exempt from practically any and all the sufferings of other people.

What can befall those outside the faith can and has befallen those inside. The Gospel has been torture tested time and time again. Had suffering wiped out faith in Jesus, it should have disappeared from the earth centuries ago. The gates of hell shall not prevail against the church which He builds, He promised.

Now please enjoy these stupendous lyric from a favorite hymn of mine written by a certain Witness Lee -

Death Cannot Hold The Resurrection Life

Hear it - YouTube

See it -

1 Death cannot hold the resurrection life,
The life of God eternal manifest;
’Tis uncreated, indestructible,
’Tis Christ Himself, unconqu’rable, expressed

2 Death cannot hold the resurrection life,
Though all its force against it may combine;
Death only gives it opportunity
To show the boundless pow’r of life divine.

3 Death cannot hold the resurrection life,
The more interred, the more it multiplies;
All kinds of suff’ring only help it grow
And fruits of life abundant realize.

4 Death cannot hold the resurrection life,
Thru every block and barrier it breaks;
Conqu’ring the pow’r of darkness and of hell,
It swallows death and victory partakes.

5 Death cannot hold the resurrection life,
All of God’s fulness it will manifest;
God’s righteousness and holiness it yields,
His glorious image by it is expressed.

6 Oh, may I know this resurrection life,
In every kind of death its pow’r outpoured,
In my experience ever realize
This life is nought but Christ my living Lord.

Here it is played on piano -

https://www.hymnal.net/en/hymn/h/639


And don't listen to twhitehead the Atheist about God and suffering. He doesn't know anything yet about this. He doesn't WANT to know anything about this.

Originally posted by sonship

Very well explained. I sometimes do not always have the right words at the right time. It is hard to try and explain to twhitehead ...

LOL !
That did really cause me to laugh out.
Tell me about it!

Been tryin for many years Nicksten.

[quote] ... that suffering is not an act of masochism from God.
Even as a Christian I don ...[text shortened]... suffering. He doesn't know anything yet about this. He doesn't WANT to know anything about this.

Loved that song!

twhitehead is going in circles and I have said what I said and I still get that feeling that he wants me to admit to saying what he thought I said. It is clear he misunderstood but yes my ears are shut and nothing atheists/evolutionists etc say will ever change my beliefs.

Originally posted by Nicksten
yes my ears are shut and nothing atheists/evolutionists etc say will ever change my beliefs.

An interesting attitude. All I was really doing is pointing out some irrationality in what you were saying.

I note that you still haven't clarified why you think God refrains from relieving us atheists from suffering.

I must also point out that evolution isn't a religion or a belief and there is no such thing as 'evolutionists'. Don't change your beliefs if you don't want to, but at least get a basic education.

Originally posted by Nicksten

beliefs.[/b]

Loved that song!

Well thankyou.
I love to sing the word of God.

Originally posted by twhitehead
An interesting attitude. All I was really doing is pointing out some irrationality in what you were saying.

I note that you still haven't clarified why you think God refrains from relieving us atheists from suffering.

I must also point out that evolution isn't a religion or a belief and there is no such thing as 'evolutionists'. Don't change your beliefs if you don't want to, but at least get a basic education.

Nothing I posted was irrational, you made it irrational when you tried claiming I said something I clearly did not say. Frankly I'm tired of trying to explain to you, who obviously is single minded, that you are wrong. You have clearly interpreted what I posted, incorrectly.

I don't have the answer why God does what He does, maybe no one has, or maybe the right answer is "because this is His world and you are living in sin thus, as a result, suffering occurs".

I will try my best to answer, but I guess you will not appreciate it, thus we will go round in circles again...
God gave you a free will, freedom of choice. Now, according to the Bible, God created the heavens and the earth and He made all the rules. So if the above is true (which I surely believe) then there are consequences for when you step outside the boundaries, and in short that is suffering. Romans 3:23 says "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God", that includes me too.

Technically there are "evolutionists", even though the whole world argues the same thing you just did, it all comes down to semantics really as even those whole believe in evolution call themselves evolutionists, just google it and see for yourself. It obviously doesn't mean it is right.

Originally posted by Nicksten
While preparing for our band practice at church tonight someone showed us a clip of "a beautiful prayer" and the words were:

I asked God for happiness.
[b]God said NO.
I give you blessings, happiness is up to you.

I asked God to take away my habit.
God said NO.
Its not for me to take away, but for you to give up.

I asked God to spare ...[text shortened]... id ... Ah! Finally you have the idea.

Just thought of sharing to my fellow christians.[/b]

I like it, thanks.

Originally posted by Nicksten
I don't have the answer why God does what He does,

Yet your OP claims to contain answers from God supposedly explaining why he does what he does.

I will try my best to answer, but I guess you will not appreciate it, thus we will go round in circles again...
God gave you a free will, freedom of choice. Now, according to the Bible, God created the heavens and the earth and He made all the rules. So if the above is true (which I surely believe) then there are consequences for when you step outside the boundaries, and in short that is suffering. Romans 3:23 says "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God", that includes me too.
So, your best explanation for why God chooses not to relieve unnecessary suffering is to claim that I have supposedly stepped outside the boundaries of certain rules?
You should stick with the 'I don't know' line, its more honest.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Yet your OP claims to contain answers from God supposedly explaining why he does what he does.

[b]I will try my best to answer, but I guess you will not appreciate it, thus we will go round in circles again...
God gave you a free will, freedom of choice. Now, according to the Bible, God created the heavens and the earth and He made all the rules. So i ...[text shortened]... he boundaries of certain rules?
You should stick with the 'I don't know' line, its more honest.

And how do you know that suffering is 'unnecessary'?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Yet your OP claims to contain answers from God supposedly explaining why he does what he does.

[b]I will try my best to answer, but I guess you will not appreciate it, thus we will go round in circles again...
God gave you a free will, freedom of choice. Now, according to the Bible, God created the heavens and the earth and He made all the rules. So i ...[text shortened]... he boundaries of certain rules?
You should stick with the 'I don't know' line, its more honest.

At least I tried giving it a shot trying to explain to you in MY OWN words of which I admitted right before attempting I don't have the answers. Would you have wanted me to rather say something I didn't actually say?

So, your best explanation for why God chooses not to relieve unnecessary suffering is to claim that I have supposedly stepped outside the boundaries of certain rules?
You should stick with the 'I don't know' line, its more honest.
Romans 3:23 says "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God".

I will repost something I said earlier on:
In the prayer God says "Suffering draws you apart from worldly cares and brings you closer to me." The POINT is, suffering is not a pointless pain, it is that "whatever" brings you closer to God is a blessing!

So, in reality there is no such thing as "unnecessary suffering".

And to your last question...YES! You are stepping outside those boundaries, as we all do, some more and some less than others...

If you are claiming you have no sin and have done nothing wrong to God or to anyone to deserve suffering, then Romans 3:23 which says "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" is a false statement in the Bible or, it just doesn't apply to you as you have no sin.

Originally posted by Nicksten
At least I tried giving it a shot trying to explain to you in MY OWN words of which I admitted right before attempting I don't have the answers.

So you tried to say something that you didn't know?

Would you have wanted me to rather say something I didn't actually say?
Huh? You get more and more incoherent as this discussion progresses.

I will repost something I said earlier on:
In the prayer God says "Suffering draws you apart from worldly cares and brings you closer to me." The POINT is, suffering is not a pointless pain, it is that "whatever" brings you closer to God is a blessing!

So, in reality there is no such thing as "unnecessary suffering".
But you also admitted that for many people, getting closer to God doesn't happen.
So, is suffering necessary for them or not?