10 Jun 05
Originally posted by blindfaith101Would you at least be willing to admit that Jesus violated the Law of Moses on occasions?
I read THE WORD OF GOD, and I believe what it says. But have you. You or noone else has stated in THE WORD OF GOD, where Jesus said not to obey the Laws of Moses. You want to believe that HE did, but HE plainly said as long as heaven and earth remained so would the Teachings of Moses. Why? HE came to fulfill the law. HE came to show how little we understand.
10 Jun 05
Originally posted by blindfaith101Have you ever invited him to come play chess here? He could look at it as a missionary project. Seriously though, invite him so he may get some sermon material. 🙂
I am a member of St. Mary Church of God In Christ
David Butler, is the Pastor
What Pastor David Butler teaches is we must live Holy according to teachings of THE WORD OF GOD.
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10 Jun 05
Originally posted by no1marauderMaybe you should ask what we mean with "believe" before you start handing out insults.
Blindfaith101: There is no way that you can call yourself Christian, if you do not believe the entire, THE WORD OF GOD from GENESIS to REVELATIONS.
LMFAO!!!!!
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10 Jun 05
Originally posted by no1marauderBefore you start insulting people about their interpretation of scripture maybe you would like to explain what Jesus meant with these words, other than what he implied:
You're a brainless parrot, incapable of reading Scripture with any understanding. You can't discuss interpretation, you have to scream and rant and talk about everybody who doesn't agree with your twisted views is going to Hell. Somebody tells you what to believe and you believe it. If they told you God wanted you to drink some Kool-Aid with ...[text shortened]... ould be "Bottoms UP!" If you weren't such a self-righteous, obnoxious snotnose I'd pity you.
Matthew 5:18 - For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
10 Jun 05
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Originally posted by dj2beckerI already did. Jesus was using the term "the Law" in it's broadest sense, as the true Law of the Father. He obviously wasn't talking about the Law of Moses as given in Leviticus and Deutronomy, since he changed that on multiple occasions as pointed out in my posts.
Before you start insulting people about their interpretation of scripture maybe you would like to explain what Jesus meant with these words, other than what he implied:
Matthew 5:18 - For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pa ...[text shortened]... tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
EDIT: You might want to read that passage in its full context: Matthew 5: 17-45
17 Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.
21 Ye have heard that it was said to them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 but I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his brother shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire.
23 If therefore thou art offering thy gift at the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath aught against thee,
24 leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way, first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, while thou art with him in the way; lest haply the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou have paid the last farthing.
27 Ye have heard that it was said, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 but I say unto you, that every one that looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye causeth thee to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand causeth thee to stumble, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body go into hell.
31 It was said also, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
32 but I say unto you, that every one that putteth away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, maketh her an adulteress: and whosoever shall marry her when she is put away committeth adultery.
33 Again, ye have heard that it was said to them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
34 but I say unto you, swear not at all; neither by the heaven, for it is the throne of God;
35 nor by the earth, for it is the footstool of his feet; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, for thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your speech be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: and whatsoever is more than these is of the evil one.
38 Ye have heard that it was said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 but I say unto you, resist not him that is evil: but whosoever smiteth thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man would go to law with thee, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go one mile, go with him two.
42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
43 Ye have heard that it was said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy:
44 but I say unto you, love your enemies, and pray for them that persecute you;
45 that ye may be sons of your Father who is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and
Clearly, Jesus in this passage is changing the Law of Moses on several matters.
10 Jun 05
Originally posted by dj2beckerI would contend he cannot "believe" in the Bible if he can't or won't understand it. You cannot simply ignore those parts which don't fit in with your belief system and then say you believe in the entire Scripture.
Maybe you should ask what we mean with "believe" before you start handing out insults.
10 Jun 05
“All who curse father or mother shall be put to death; having cursed father or mother, their blood is upon them.” Leviticus 20:9
I am aware of no church group that keeps this Levitical commandment (of course, if they did, they would be duly punished under secular law; but for anyone who would claim that this part of the Levitical code is still binding, it would be God’s law and should be obeyed nonetheless).
“Now before faith came, we were imprisoned and guarded under the law until faith would be revealed. Therefore the law was our disciplinarian until Christ came, so that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer subject to a disciplinarian, for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith.” (Galatians 3:23-26)
10 Jun 05
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Originally posted by no1marauderIf your views are 90% original, then they are 98% wrong. Anyone who thinks his views are original is either ignorant or lying. There's nothing new under the sun, and greater minds have considered your views before you and rejected them. And the few you have correct were certainly thought of and recorded long before you came along.
If I win debating contests, it's because I present my views effectively. I least I present my views rather than someone else's.
But I think your views are views from someone else that you agree with. That is what most people do when they give their views. People don't tend to post other peoples views that are against their own unless they are pointing out some error in the other view.
So tell me which view you have that is all your own and did not come from someone else.
10 Jun 05
Originally posted by no1marauderHe did not change the law, was correcting their interpretation of the law. He made the implications of twisting the law, and failing to follow the law clearer. Jesus is the ultimate expounder of the law. He understood the law better then any.
...18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, he sha ...[text shortened]... nd
Clearly, Jesus in this passage is changing the Law of Moses on several matters.
10 Jun 05
Originally posted by dale21I think it must be read in context. The "earth" means the lands or nations, the the men and lands referred to are those of the known world of that time, the Gentile nations that were enemies of the Jews at that time.
please
Psa 83:1-18 -
Psalm 83 requires only to call attention to its subject. It is the last confederacy of the nations surrounding Canaan, with Assur helping them. At the close of the psalm, though the cry be to God as such (for Israel is not yet established in covenant blessing), Jehovah's name is brought in. Judgment is to be executed, that the rebellious nations may seek Jehovah's name. It is not, know the Father, nor, know there is a God; but, know Jehovah. When His judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. Men will know that He whose name alone is Jehovah (He who is, and was, and is to come) is the Most High over all the earth; that is, Jehovah (the one true God), the God of Israel, is the One above all, the One supreme over the earth. It is in this name He takes possession of the earth, as Melchisedec pronounces the blessing in the name of the Most High, possessor of heaven and earth. And Nebuchadnezzar, the humbled head of the Gentiles, praises and blesses the Most High. It is His millennial name in which He takes to Him His great power and reigns, and the true Melchisedec is priest upon His throne, and the counsel of peace between both. This establishes prophetically Jehovah, the God of Israel, supreme in the earth. His people, now restored to relationship, look for a full blessing and the name of Jehovah is again used. Up to this, save as looking back or looking forward, the cry of the people is addressed to God, the people not being in possession of covenant blessings.
Synopsis of the Old and New Testaments
John Nelson Darby (1800 - 1882)
10 Jun 05
1 edit
Originally posted by ColettiLook, I'm tired of your crackpot definitions; I didn't say my views were "original"; I said they were mine. I don't ever recall discussing ANY of the points in this thread with anybody else and I haven't read much of other's people's views on the NT besides on RHP. What you believe is your own affair, but I am not cutting and pasting or regurgitating something I heard or read - I'm looking at the passages and coming to reasoned conclusions based on the tools of interpretation that I know. Maybe you are a parrot, but I am not. The views I am giving here are mine; since I am not aware of what everybody else has thought throughout the existence of humankind, I can't and don't claim originality, but that I have given these matters my independent thought and judgment is something I can truthfully say. Can you, bf101, RBHILL, dj2becker, etc. etc. say the same?
If your views are 90% original, then they are 98% wrong. Anyone who thinks his views are original is either ignorant or lying. There's nothing new under the sun, and greater minds have considered your views before you and rejected them. ...[text shortened]... you have that is all your own and did not come from someone else.
10 Jun 05
Originally posted by ColettiThe incidents I gave are places where Jesus directly did not follow and said it was not necessary to follow specific laws in the Law of Moses given in Leviticus and Deutronomy. The earlier words are still there in your Bible, but Jesus, by word and deed, said those laws are no longer in force.
He did not change the law, was correcting their interpretation of the law. He made the implications of twisting the law, and failing to follow the law clearer. Jesus is the ultimate expounder of the law. He understood the law better then any.