18 Aug 05
Originally posted by frogstompThere is some sort of logic behind God's choice in the matter of the brothers' sacrifice, though I can't puzzle it out...
Cainian logic? Is there such a thing?
By way of a tangential offering, here's a poem from a man who did his fair share of spiritual wrestling (not a great translation but what the heck):
Abel & Cain
I.
Race of Abel, sleep, drink and eat;
God smiles complacently on you.
Race of Cain, crawl and die
Impoverished in the mud.
Race of Abel, your sacrifice
Pleases the nose of the Seraph!
Race of Cain, will your
Torment ever end?
Race of Abel, watch your fields
And your cattle flourish;
Race of Cain, your entrails
Scream with hunger like an old dog.
Race of Abel, warm your belly
At the patriarchal hearth;
Race of Cain, tremble with cold
In your den, poor jackal!
Race of Abel, love and multiply!
Even your gold bears children.
Race of Cain, heart that burns,
Beware of these great appetites.
Race of Abel, you grow and graze
Like insects in the forest!
Race of Cain, drag your desperate
Family along the roadsides.
II.
Oh! Race of Abel, your carcass
Will fertilize the smoking soil!
Race of Cain, your task
Has not been sufficiently completed;
Race of Abel, here is your shame:
The sword is vanquished by the spear!
Race of Cain, mount to the sky,
And throw God to earth!
(Charles Baudelaire)
18 Aug 05
Originally posted by lucifershammerObviously not but I don't make ludicrous claims that Atheists don't believe they are really Atheists and when I call him on the carpet he grabs his bible and finds the most convenient verse available.
Just because he quotes another source does not mean they do not reflect his thoughts. Is every single thought you ever had original?
This the old stand-by for many Christians and the typical automaton response which can never be discussed because it lends nothing to discuss: it's in the Bible so therefore it must be right.
When does processing ideas for one's self ever occur?
18 Aug 05
Originally posted by chinking58ditto..good answer...A person is a Christian if he/she accepts Jesus as Lord and believes that God raised Him from the dead.period..Romans 10:9...
Yes. If a Christian is one who is saved by Christ. Because we know that absolutely no works are required to be saved, and if having to believe such about the Bible was required for salvation, that would be a 'work'.
Besides that, once a person becomes a Christian, then their mind is opened by the Holy Spirit, to see the beauty and perfection of H ...[text shortened]... would not be very well 'abiding in Christ.' I would be like the branch cut off from the vine.
19 Aug 05
Originally posted by checkbaitorThat's Paulian doctrine :
ditto..good answer...A person is a Christian if he/she accepts Jesus as Lord and believes that God raised Him from the dead.period..Romans 10:9...
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
also is part of the basis for the Arian heresy.
19 Aug 05
Originally posted by frogstompThe whole bible is the inspired word of God. You can call it Pauline or anything you like but it is still God breathed, from Genesis to Revelation.
That's Paulian doctrine :
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
also is part of the basis for the Arian heresy.
19 Aug 05
Originally posted by frogstompUltimately, whether or not you believe the Bible is up to you. If you diligently seek God, you will find Him. When God makes a promise, you can bet He will keep it. Scripture is clear that if you seek, you will find (Deut. 4:29). Of course, “seek” means seek, and God responds to a serious and diligent effort (Prov. 2:1-6; Matt. 7:7-11). There are millions of Christians on the earth, and each of them has a different story of how he or she came to the faith. History is filled with glowing testimonies of people who sought for the Lord Jesus Christ and whose lives have been touched and changed by him.
That's Paulian doctrine :
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
also is part of the basis for the Arian heresy.
You do not need to be “down and out” to find God. All He requires is that you genuinely want to know Him. God and the things of God will not become clear to you if you examine them from a distance as if you were considering some object in a store window you were thinking of purchasing. People who remain distant or just want to know about God so they can “decide” whether to believe and obey Him will never learn the truth about Him. God created the heavens and the earth, and He made the rules. We are God’s creation; He is not our creation. Many people wonder if the Bible is really God’s Word. Jesus Christ gave us clear instructions on how to find out for ourselves if God’s Word is true:
John 7:17
If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.
This verse is very clear: the key to knowing God is choosing to do His will. As you begin to obey God, He will reveal Himself and His Word to you. Once you begin to seek and obey God, things about Him that were unclear become very understandable. God designed things such that obedience is the great key to knowing Him.
John 14:21
Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.
Please closely observe the wording in the above verse. When someone loves God and obeys Him, then God reveals Himself. But that is not what skeptics and doubters want. They want God to show Himself so they can examine Him and make up their minds whether He is acceptable or not (Matt. 12:38 and 39). Well, the skeptics and doubters did not make the rules. God is the Living God, and He is also the Loving God. He wants a relationship with people, but, like us humans, He wants a relationship with those who honor Him and believe Him. He will not “show up to be examined” by the skeptic. Skeptics often laugh at believers and call them gullible, naive, wishful thinkers, easily fooled, etc., because they do not see or understand what the believer does. This is not new. Christ spoke very openly about the fact that people who do not belong to God cannot “hear” the truth. He told the Pharisees who did not believe in him they could not hear him because they did not belong to God:
John 8:47
He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you [Pharisees] do not hear is that you do not belong to God.
The critic and the skeptic will never “hear” the words of God. God’s wisdom is for the seeker and the believer. To others it is foolishness, and the Bible is very clear about that:
1 Corinthians 2:14
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
There are a lot of reasons to accept the Bible as the truth. However, to the skeptic, the idea that “all Scripture is God-breathed...” (2 Tim. 3:16a) is foolishness, and so are the miracles, healings, prophecies, and the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. Scripture tells us these things will be foolishness to the unbeliever, so we should not be surprised when the skeptics doubt. If you are a skeptic, I urge you to begin to diligently seek God and start obeying His commands. The first step toward really understanding the things of God, and the most important step anyone can take, is to get saved and receive God’s gift of everlasting life. Because salvation is the first step most people take toward God, He has made the instructions clear and the way easy:
Romans 10:9
That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Salvation is of the utmost importance, so we must be sure we understand God’s instructions. To be saved, you must confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord. What does that mean? It means you say what the Bible clearly declares; that Jesus is Lord, i.e., he is the Son of God who died for your sins, was raised from the dead and highly exalted to the right hand of God. Have you ever said, “Jesus is Lord”? Why not say it right now? Just say, “Jesus is Lord.”
Once you have said that Jesus is Lord, Romans 10:9 says you are to believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead. This is not difficult to do if you believe in God. If God can create entire galaxies, then surely He can give life to a dead body. Once you have confessed with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believed in your heart God raised him from the dead, you are saved. Salvation is very easy to attain because God wants everyone to be saved (1 Tim. 2:4).
When Paul was teaching in the city of Philippi, he was thrown into prison. A jailer asked him the most important question any human could ask: “...What must I do to be saved?” (Acts 16:30). Paul’s answer was short and to the point: “...Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved...” (Acts 16:31). The same is as true for you and me as it was for that jailer nearly 2,000 years ago. If you believe in the living Lord, Jesus Christ, you will be saved. Then, as you begin to obey the commands of God and seek Him, you will find Him.
19 Aug 05
Originally posted by checkbaitorMore latter day additions.
Ultimately, whether or not you believe the Bible is up to you. If you diligently seek God, you will find Him. When God makes a promise, you can bet He will keep it. Scripture is clear that if you seek, you will find (Deut. 4:29). Of course, “seek” means seek, and God responds to a serious and diligent effort (Prov. 2:1-6; Matt. 7:7-11). There are million ...[text shortened]... u will be saved. Then, as you begin to obey the commands of God and seek Him, you will find Him.
Christ tells you His message ,, Paul's and the Roman church father's add on's mean nothing