30 Mar 07
Originally posted by PenguinYes, the esoteric aspects of these belief systems are, from a psychological perspective, practically interchangeable--what alters is their cultural context, the form in which they are applied. It's not a question of which one is right or not. Which language is right--English or Japanese?
The only method implied here is meditation and that can certainly produce intense experiences but those experiences no more support Gnostic explanations than they support Buddhist, Christian, Hindu or Muslim explanations.
Gnosticism is perhaps best viewed as a forerunner to depth psychology. The symbols of the unconscious cannot be observed empirically, but they are no less real for that.
You probably don't think much of alchemy, either. Well, Jung thought otherwise... http://www.gnosis.org/jung_alchemy.htm
01 Apr 07
Originally posted by twhiteheadFor example did you experience them before you became Christian?
Do you think it is possible that your experiences and your interpretation of them are strongly affected by your beliefs?
For example did you experience them before you became Christian?
Are they experienced by non-Christians?
If you became muslim would you not experience them any more or would you possibly have different experiences which matched the p ...[text shortened]... le alternative explanations but are you looking at natural causes as a possible alternative?
Are they experienced by non-Christians? WHITEY
You won't believe me but I can honestly say yes to this question. I was having spiritual experiences way before I bumped into Christians. Christianity was the only faith that seemd to explain what I sensed.......and believe me did I look at a lot of religions. For me the experience came first.
01 Apr 07
Originally posted by twhiteheadIsn't there a strong possibility that the Christian religion is modeled around an attempt at explaining certain experiences and thus you would expect it to match the experiences even if the explanation was wrong? WHITEY
Do you think it is possible that your experiences and your interpretation of them are strongly affected by your beliefs?
For example did you experience them before you became Christian?
Are they experienced by non-Christians?
If you became muslim would you not experience them any more or would you possibly have different experiences which matched the p ...[text shortened]... le alternative explanations but are you looking at natural causes as a possible alternative?
So Christianity is an attempt to explain the experience of the presence of the Holy Spirit or the living presence of Jesus?
Funny thing about this idea is that Jesus talked about the Holy Spirit before the disciples had the experience him (in Acts) . In the NT the explanation came before the experience.
01 Apr 07
3 edits
Originally posted by Penguin[/b]I interpret this phenomena as a sign of the gradual erosion of the power of religion: all the religions are having to face the fact that their different interpretations of reality and history are just as valid as each other, ie not really valid at all.
[b]I don't quite agree that the faiths mentioned claim that each other are all wrong--some followers certainly would, of course, but there is always an ecumenical strain that allows for overlap, the view that "all religions are one". The Sufis were persecuted by orthodox Islam because they came to believe that esoteric Christianity and Islam were perfectly c ith equal probability with Pastafarianism.
Sorry to be so dismissive!
--- Penguin.
This might be persuasive if (a) the notion of an underlying unity to differing religious expressions were a new idea, and (b) if most people in most religions did not still resist the idea!
Monism may well be older than monotheism (or even polytheism, for that matter). I think that it probably is.
02 Apr 07
Originally posted by Jay JoosI'm afraid it doesn't work that way. If there is no god and you die, then you won't know it. You won't be able to reflect upon the absence of a god, you'll just be dead.
I dont think anything can convince me there is no God...
"I would rather live my life and believe there is a God to die and find out there isn't than to live my life and not believe there is a God and die to find out there is !!!".
02 Apr 07
Originally posted by scottishinnzWhatever made you think such a thing? Oh dear , if you think that the mind never can play tricks on us you have a lot to learn. The truth is sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. It can also be a trick of the mind to think that something is a trick of the mind. The mind is that tricky!
Because the mind never plays tricks, right?!
02 Apr 07
Originally posted by scottishinnzDo you concede that it may be you, and not others, who got their interpretation of biblical scripture wrong? SCOTTY
Good you've answered Howard's questions. Now perhaps mine?
Do you concede that it may be you, and not others, who got their interpretation of biblical scripture wrong?
An example of how scripture can be misinterpreted is when something is taken out of context. If someone is viewing scripture in a narrow , isolated way then , yes , their interpretation is likely to be faulty. Another way to misinterpret scripture is when something is interpreted in a way that does not take into account God's love and compassion. Also taking certain things as literal when there is no demand to do so and not looking at the historical context in which they are written is another mistake as is the mistake of mistranslation from the greek/hebrew texts. Should I go on?
02 Apr 07
Originally posted by rwingettMy point was that even if your comment is right then i still would have led a righteous life doing the Lords work but think how wonderful it would be to die and then be in the presense of the Lord !!!
I'm afraid it doesn't work that way. If there is no god and you die, then you won't know it. You won't be able to reflect upon the absence of a god, you'll just be dead.
02 Apr 07
Originally posted by Jay JoosIf there is no god, then there can be no such thing as "doing the Lord's work." Righteousness, likewise, becomes an empty concept. If you live your life in thrall to a supposed deity, but it turns out that there is no deity, then you have wasted your time.
My point was that even if your comment is right then i still would have led a righteous life doing the Lords work but think how wonderful it would be to die and then be in the presense of the Lord !!!
02 Apr 07
Originally posted by rwingettstill..... would you rather live a happy,content life or a empty and sad life?
If there is no god, then there can be no such thing as "doing the Lord's work." Righteousness, likewise, becomes an empty concept. If you live your life in thrall to a supposed deity, but it turns out that there is no deity, then you have wasted your time.
Thats what i am trying to say....to help others,to have a smile on my face and a spring in my step and to believe in God is not a waste of time...
By believing you are doing the Lords work brings inner peace whilst you are alive...surely that cant be a waste of time ???
02 Apr 07
Originally posted by Jay JoosThat depends whether or not you actually get the most out of life by following god or by living without such a concept.
still..... would you rather live a happy,content life or a empty and sad life?
Thats what i am trying to say....to help others,to have a smile on my face and a spring in my step and to believe in God is not a waste of time...
By believing you are doing the Lords work brings inner peace whilst you are alive...surely that cant be a waste of time ???
02 Apr 07
Originally posted by StarrmanI have to agree with you here, doing good works for the sake of doing
That depends whether or not you actually get the most out of life by following god or by living without such a concept.
the good works does help us get it the most out of life, with or with
out God.
God being real does sort out why things are done the way they are in
a way no person can, which brings us the the truth of the matter not
how we view things with our limited means of understanding them.
We can have two different people both give money to X, and on the
surface that is all that was done. The bottom line after that is why,
one might being doing it because they believe in X, while the other
could being doing it, to make themselves look good to do Y.
Kelly
03 Apr 07
Originally posted by Jay JoosUltimately then, all of your "good" deeds are done for self interest.
My point was that even if your comment is right then i still would have led a righteous life doing the Lords work but think how wonderful it would be to die and then be in the presense of the Lord !!!
An action which for an atheist like me would be purely altruistic, for you would have some element of self interest because to some degree you are doing it to get to heaven and be with your God.
In this way religious belief undermines the moral value of the action.