a reprobate mind

Originally posted by dj2becker
So you want me to answer the question while pretending that I had different beliefs to what I have?🙄

No I am asking you to answer a question about your attitude to other human beings who have come to have some belief in Jesus even though the details of that belief do not coincide exactly with yours.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Well the fact that you won't admit that you are wrong is quite obvious, so be it.

[1] We can agree to disagree. [2] We can agree that you feel the need to declare yourself the winner, repeatedly.

Originally posted by FMF
No I am asking you to answer a question about your attitude to other human beings who have come to have some belief in Jesus even though the details of that belief do not coincide exactly with yours.

As I asked before, how is believing you can save yourself equivalent to having 'some belief in Jesus?'

Originally posted by FMF
[1] We can agree to disagree. [2] We can agree that you feel the need to declare yourself the winner, repeatedly.

Or [3] You can admit that you are wrong when it is plainly obvious for everyone to see.

Originally posted by dj2becker
As I asked before, how is believing you can save yourself equivalent to having 'some belief in Jesus?'

I am talking about a belief that Jesus can be the agent of someone being "saved" (as opposed to the lack of any such belief on the part of an atheist). The nuts and bolts of your own personal belief about how one is "saved" are irrelevant.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Or [3] You can admit that you are wrong when it is plainly obvious for everyone to see.

You adding this is an example of [2] and an apparent rejection of [1]. I don't need your suggested [3] because I take the stance of [1].

Originally posted by FMF
I am talking about a belief that Jesus can be the agent of someone being "saved" (as opposed to the lack of any such belief on the part of an atheist). The nuts and bolts of your own personal belief about how one is "saved" are irrelevant.

I reject the premise that Jesus is an agent when someone is trying to save themselves.

Originally posted by FMF
You adding this is an example of [2] and an apparent rejection of [1]. I don't need your suggested [3] because I take the stance of [1].

Would you agree to disagree with someone if they insisted the moon was made of cheese?

Originally posted by dj2becker
Would you agree to disagree with someone if they insisted the moon was made of cheese?

If that was what they believed, and they were not interested in discussing it further, yes.

Originally posted by dj2becker
I reject the premise that Jesus is an agent when someone is trying to save themselves.

Once again. Your own ideology about the nuts and bolts of how one is "saved" is not the issue.

What a corner you have backed yourself into.

Originally posted by FMF
If that was what they believed, and they were not interested in discussing it further, yes.

Good for you.

Originally posted by FMF
Once again. Your own ideology about the nuts and bolts of how one is "saved" is not the issue.

What a corner you have backed yourself into.

You saying that someone trying to save themselves somehow involves Jesus doesn't make it so.

Originally posted by dj2becker
What a corner you have backed yourself into.

How so?

I would agree to disagree if someone insisted that the moon was made of cheese and if they could not be persuaded otherwise.

Meanwhile, the corner you have backed yourself into is that you would not welcome someone believing that it was possible to be "saved" by Jesus... if the mechanics of that "salvation" differed from those specifically set out in the ideology you happen subscribe to. That, right there, is a corner that you have backed into.

Originally posted by dj2becker
You saying that someone trying to save themselves somehow involves Jesus doesn't make it so.

In the matter we are discussing, Rajk999's analysis ~ who else is it - aside from Jesus - that might be perceived as making someone "saved"? Has Rajk999 suggested that it is some other supernatural being aside from Jesus?

Originally posted by FMF
How so?

I would agree to disagree if someone insisted that the moon was made of cheese and if they could not be persuaded otherwise.

Meanwhile, the corner you have backed yourself into is that you would not welcome someone believing that it was possible to be "saved" by Jesus... if the mechanics of that "salvation" differed from those specifically set out ...[text shortened]... the ideology you happen subscribe to. That, right there, is a corner that you have backed into.

You just don't get it. I have no issue with Jesus saving anyone my issue is with people trying to save themselves.