A Short Note on Grace

Originally posted by KellyJay
You prove my point, thank you.
Kelly

So you are able to determine a poster's ultimate fate by looking at their posts. Do you have records of your success rate?

Originally posted by JS357
So you are able to determine a poster's ultimate fate by looking at their posts. Do you have records of your success rate?

No, but on this topic I've been in enough conversations here where people
have said as much, so I felt they would continue on with the same mind set.
I don't know anyone's fate, they can turn towards God's grace anytime, and
God has made away for them to be saved.
Kelly

Originally posted by JS357
I'm not going to assume that some made-up poll is going to present the moment that determines a person's future. I am not authorized to present final ultimatums, am I?

I was just addressing your point that at some point in time all people will
come to God, but I'm telling you that is not the case. God may call them,
but they can avoid God at all costs and reject Him. On judgment day they
may wish they had, but then it will be to late.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I was just addressing your point that at some point in time all people will
come to God, but I'm telling you that is not the case. God may call them,
but they can avoid God at all costs and reject Him. On judgment day they
may wish they had, but then it will be to late.
Kelly

In the prior post, you say, "I don't know anyone's fate, they can turn towards God's grace anytime, and God has made away for them to be saved."

In this one, you say it is not the case that all people will come to God.

I can understand someone saying it doesn't look to them, that all people will come to God, and they are operating on that assumption, but based just on the Bible, that's about as far as it seems justified.

Originally posted by JS357
In the prior post, you say, "I don't know anyone's fate, they can turn towards God's grace anytime, and God has made away for them to be saved."

In this one, you say it is not the case that all people will come to God.

I can understand someone saying it doesn't look to them, that all people will come to God, and they are operating on that assumption, but based just on the Bible, that's about as far as it seems justified.

Jesus told us that few will find God but many called. People love their sins
and will justify themselves, but they will also condemn people who do some
of the same things they do, proving they know better.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Jesus told us that few will find God but many called. People love their sins
and will justify themselves, but they will also condemn people who do some
of the same things they do, proving they know better.
Kelly

"Jesus told us that few will find God but many called."

Chapter and verse and relevant context would be helpful here. Please? I am so close to an answer on the subject of universal reconciliation. All I am seeking is what the Bible's words, are, on this.

Originally posted by JS357
"Jesus told us that few will find God but many called."

Chapter and verse and relevant context would be helpful here. Please? I am so close to an answer on the subject of universal reconciliation. All I am seeking is what the Bible's words, are, on this.

Matthew 22:1 Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying, 2 “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son. 3 And he sent out his slaves to call those who had been invited to the wedding feast, and they were unwilling to come. 4 Again he sent out other slaves saying, ‘Tell those who have been invited, “Behold, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and my fattened livestock are all butchered and everything is ready; come to the wedding feast.”’ 5 But they paid no attention and went their way, one to his own farm, another to his business, 6 and the rest seized his slaves and mistreated them and killed them. 7 But the king was enraged, and he sent his armies and destroyed those murderers and set their city on fire. 8 Then he *said to his slaves, ‘The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. 9 Go therefore to the main highways, and as many as you find there, invite to the wedding feast.’ 10 Those slaves went out into the streets and gathered together all they found, both evil and good; and the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests.

11 “But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes, 12 and he *said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes?’ And the man was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”

I gave you the context of the first verse that came to mind.
Kelly

Originally posted by JS357
"Jesus told us that few will find God but many called."

Chapter and verse and relevant context would be helpful here. Please? I am so close to an answer on the subject of universal reconciliation. All I am seeking is what the Bible's words, are, on this.

Sorry for the long post but see if this helps:



Judgment Day—What Is It?

How do you picture Judgment Day? Many think that one by one, billions of souls will be brought before the throne of God. There, judgment will be passed upon each individual. Some will be rewarded with heavenly bliss, and others will be condemned to eternal torment. However, the Bible paints quite a different picture of this period of time. God’s Word portrays it, not as a terrifying time, but as a time of hope and restoration.

At Revelation 20:11, 12, we read the apostle John’s description of Judgment Day: “I saw a great white throne and the one seated on it. From before him the earth and the heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. But another scroll was opened; it is the scroll of life. And the dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds.”

Who is the Judge described here?

Jehovah God is the ultimate Judge of mankind. However, he delegates the actual work of judging. According to Acts p. 21417:31, the apostle Paul said that God “has set a day in which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed.” This appointed Judge is the resurrected Jesus Christ. (John 5:22)

When, though, does Judgment Day begin? How long does it last?

The book of Revelation shows that Judgment Day begins after the war of Armageddon, when Satan’s system on earth will be destroyed.* (Revelation 16:14, 16; 19:19–20:3) After Armageddon, Satan and his demons will be imprisoned in an abyss for a thousand years. During that time, the 144,000 heavenly joint heirs will be judges and will rule “as kings with the Christ for a thousand years.” (Revelation 14:1-3; 20:1-4; Romans 8:17) Judgment Day is not some hurried event lasting a mere 24 hours. It lasts a thousand years.

During that thousand-year period, Jesus Christ will “judge the living and the dead.” (2 Timothy 4:1) “The living” will be the “great crowd” that survives Armageddon. (Revelation 7:9-17) The apostle John also saw “the dead . . . standing before the throne” of judgment. As Jesus promised, “those in the memorial tombs will hear [Christ’s] voice and come out” by means of a resurrection. (John 5:28, 29; Acts 24:15)

But on what basis will all be judged?

According to the apostle John’s vision, “scrolls were opened,” and “the dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds.” Are these scrolls the record of people’s past deeds? No, the judgment will not focus on what people did before they died. How do we know that? The Bible says: “He who has died has been acquitted from his sin.” (Romans 6:7) Those resurrected thus come to life with a clean slate, so to speak. The scrolls must therefore represent God’s further requirements. To live forever, both Armageddon survivors and resurrected ones will have to obey God’s commandments, including whatever new requirements Jehovah might reveal during the thousand years. Thus, individuals will be judged on the basis of what they do during Judgment Day.

Judgment Day will give billions of people their first opportunity to learn about God’s will and to conform to it. This means that a large-scale educational work will take place. Indeed, “righteousness is what the inhabitants of the productive land will certainly learn.” (Isaiah 26:9) However, not all will be willing to conform to God’s will. Isaiah 26:10 says: “Though the wicked one should be shown favor, he simply will not learn righteousness. In the land of straightforwardness he will act unjustly and will not see the eminence of Jehovah.” These wicked ones will be put to death permanently during Judgment Day.—Isaiah 65:20.

By the end of Judgment Day, surviving humans will have “come to life” fully as perfect humans. (Revelation 20:5) Judgment Day will thus see the restoration of mankind to its original perfect state. (1 Corinthians 15:24-28) Then a final test will take place. Satan will be released from his imprisonment and allowed to try to mislead mankind one last time. (Revelation 20:3, 7-10) Those who resist him will enjoy the complete fulfillment of the Bible’s promise: “The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.” (Psalm 37:29)

If you have a bible please read all the scriptures included in this. It will help to see what is being explained here.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Matthew 22:1 Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying, 2 “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son. 3 And he sent out his slaves to call those who had been invited to the wedding feast, and they were unwilling to come. 4 Again he sent out other slaves saying, ‘Tell those who have been invited, “Behold, I have ...[text shortened]... led, but few are chosen.”

I gave you the context of the first verse that came to mind.
Kelly

This does not say to me that someone WILL show up in such a state that they will not meet muster. It says that IF they do show up in such a state, the same thing will happen to them as to the speechless man. But these words (Many are called but few are chosen) don't deny the possibility of salvation to anyone, do they?

Originally posted by galveston75
Sorry for the long post but see if this helps:



Judgment Day—What Is It?

How do you picture Judgment Day? Many think that one by one, billions of souls will be brought before the throne of God. There, judgment will be passed upon each individual. Some will be rewarded with heavenly bliss, and others will be condemned to eterna ...[text shortened]... ease read all the scriptures included in this. It will help to see what is being explained here.

I am willing to accept that modern Bible interpretations by some people conclude that universal reconciliation is inconsistent with Biblical texts.

You cite: "Thus, individuals will be judged on the basis of what they do during Judgment Day.

"Judgment Day will give billions of people their first opportunity to learn about God’s will and to conform to it. This means that a large-scale educational work will take place."

"...These wicked ones will be put to death permanently during Judgment Day.—Isaiah 65:20"

You seem to think this means there WILL be wicked ones who don't accept the educational message. I think the idea that any such people, if such there be, and there might or not be such people, will be so treated, is consistent with what you cite.

Originally posted by JS357
This does not say to me that someone WILL show up in such a state that they will not meet muster. It says that IF they do show up in such a state, the same thing will happen to them as to the speechless man. But these words (Many are called but few are chosen) don't deny the possibility of salvation to anyone, do they?

Salvation has been opened for all, it isn't closed to anyone, not all want
Jesus Christ to be their Lord and Savior too. If you read the full text I sent
it says that many reject it, many out of better things to do in their opinions
at the time.
Kelly

Originally posted by galveston75
Sorry for the long post but see if this helps:



Judgment Day—What Is It?

How do you picture Judgment Day? Many think that one by one, billions of souls will be brought before the throne of God. There, judgment will be passed upon each individual. Some will be rewarded with heavenly bliss, and others will be condemned to eterna ...[text shortened]... ease read all the scriptures included in this. It will help to see what is being explained here.

Okay, I'll make this my project on my next days off. I work 12 hour nights
so I'm hit and miss here on most nights, but on my nights off I have time
to apply to this.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Okay, I'll make this my project on my next days off. I work 12 hour nights
so I'm hit and miss here on most nights, but on my nights off I have time
to apply to this.
Kelly

The absence of belief in the possibility of universal reconciliation is the first stumbling block for me. If Christians can agree that it is possible, without thereby being heretical, that would be a good start.

Originally posted by JS357
The absence of belief in the [b]possibility of universal reconciliation is the first stumbling block for me. If Christians can agree that it is possible, without thereby being heretical, that would be a good start.[/b]

I am not sure what you are saying here, you believe there should be a point
where everyone no matter what should be saved?
Kelly