Abiogenesis, evolution and morality

Originally posted by sonship
He mentioned some variation, I confirmed it briefly and admitted there was more for me to learn.

Exceptions to many things occur in abnormalities. As I study these exceptions I will see if I am not right but just need to take into account some nuances.

Of course some Phd. can make a lot of money writing a book which opens a flood gate of people wantin ...[text shortened]... s and valid abnormalities multitudes will find justification to try to change their sex - a fad.

Sonship - do you want to have a stab at explaining the numbers twhitehead highlighted from the YouTube video you linked?

Originally posted by FMF
So according to your ideology and beliefs, do you think your God figure's "desires" to see "all men saved" were thwarted by His far-fetched, equivocal, cryptic, divisive revelation deliberately?

I think man's fallen nature would lead some to find some objection to God either way, any way.

It is too narrow.
It is too broad.

It is too new and recent.
It is too old and arcane.

It is too simplistic.
It is too difficult.

It is too ...
It is too ...
It is too ...

These rationales and excuses will not amount to anything in the end before the final judgment of God.

Originally posted by sonship
But I think it is important to state how God desires all men to be saved and to come to the full knowledge of the truth.

How are your God figure's "desires" for "all men (and women) to be saved" playing out in my neighbourhood?

Originally posted by sonship
These rationales and excuses will not amount to anything in the end before the final judgment of God.

What "rationales and excuses" do you imagine my Muslim next door neighbours are offering for not subscribing to the same beliefs as you?

Originally posted by FMF
How are your God figure's "desires" for "all men (and women) to be saved" playing out in my neighbourhood?

I don't know. I wonder if you are dedicated to working against it though.
You don't know the ripple effect on other human beings your incessant voiced opposition has.

In your neighborhood you might first repent of your own wickedness first before grumbling about how God is working in your neighborhood.

Then you could begin to pray for the people whose blood may be on your hands because of the time you have spent doing your best to assault the "God-figure" you hate so much.

Originally posted by sonship
I don't know. I wonder if you are dedicated to working against it though.
You don't know the ripple effect on other human beings your incessant voiced opposition has.

In your neighborhood you might first repent of your own wickedness first before grumbling about how God is working in your neighborhood.

Then you could begin to pray for the people who ...[text shortened]... because of the time you have spent doing your best to assault the "God-figure" you hate so much.

Sonship - do you want to have a stab at explaining the numbers twhitehead highlighted from the YouTube video you linked?

Originally posted by sonship
I am not willing [...]

Fair enough.

Originally posted by sonship
In your neighborhood you might first repent of your own wickedness first before grumbling about how God is working in your neighborhood.

I believe the reason you dodge the question I am asking with replies like the one above is because your claim about what your God figure "desires" regarding "all men being saved" does not withstand even a moment's scrutiny. I am not "grumbling about God", sonship, I am merely pointing out that your ideology doesn't really make any sense.

Originally posted by sonship
Then you could begin to pray for the people whose blood may be on your hands because of the time you have spent doing your best to assault the "God-figure" you hate so much.

How do you think the blood of my neighbours is "on my hands"?

Do you seriously think your God figure is working through me and if my neighbours end up being tortured for eternity that it will be my responsibility?

Is this really part of the mechanism of "salvation" as you see it?

Originally posted by sonship
I don't know. I wonder if you are dedicated to working against it though.
You don't know the ripple effect on other human beings your incessant voiced opposition has.

If you genuinely believe that my participation here on this forum, and the fact that I don't believe the same things as you, might result in real human beings actually being tortured - forever - then presumably you have alerted the posts in question.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Sonship - do you want to have a stab at explaining the numbers twhitehead highlighted from the YouTube video you linked?

As far as I know he didn't even bother to watch it.
Why on earth do you want to hide behind twhitehead's coattails so much?

You keep asking me to go off to talk to somebody I obviously don't want to spend a lot of time on.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

You don't see any inherit danger in trending towards this in a unbridled and reckless way ? Look down the road to the age of your grandchildren. Do you see some transgender utopia ?

One of the byproducts of dedication to Evolutionary philosophy is that everyone assumes "Whatever comes next is progress." People imagine only goodness can result in change. Always up. Always getting better. Always nature is progressing.

People get carried away on fads. And this is something also that is happening in the spiritual realm. I honestly think something is happening in the spiritual realm.

While we should be educated about abnormalities I think another danger is trending in a faddish way. Thousands jumping on the bandwagon hoping only "progress" is resulting in "choosing" which sex they want to be.

I pulled the video.

Originally posted by sonship
As far as I know he didn't even bother to watch it.
Why on earth do you want to hide behind twhitehead's coattails so much?

You keep asking me to go off to talk to somebody I obviously don't want to spend a lot of time on.

If he didn't watch it then when did he get the figures he's quoting from? You've watched it, are his figures correct? If so can you explain them?

This is a frequent tactic of yours sonship, you've done it to me in the past, hence why I don't bother watching anything you post. You'll post a video challenging people to watch it and then when they do and ask questions concerning the dodgy science in the video you don't bother answering them.

Originally posted by FMF

Do you seriously think your God figure is working through me and if my neighbours end up being tortured for eternity that it will be my responsibility?

I seriously think you are tortured now. And you probably take light of Christ saying "He who is not with Me is against Me."

The ripple effect of your many words in opposition to the Gospel, only eternity may tell, what effect they had on others.

[b]How do you think the blood of my neighbours is "on my hands"?
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The expression I should have used was "on you" or possibly "on your head".

The opposing Jews who demanded Christ's crucifixion said "His blood be on us". In other words, any guilt resulting from Christ being opposed "Well, we don't care. Let it be on us. We don't care and have no fear or concern about it "

"And Pilate, seeing that nothing was gained but rather that an uproar was taking place, took water and washed his hands before the crowd, saying, I am innocent of this man's blood. You see to it yourselves.

And all the people answered and said, his blood be upon us and upon our children." (Matt. 27:24,25)

They were emboldened by their desperate opposition to the Son of God.
You wax bolder and bolder in a similar way. blinded to how you will one day be called to answer to God.

I don't presume to know how you talk to your neighbors. I know how you have written words here on this Forum which may have effected the lives of hundreds of people.
So yes, I would be concerned that you have influenced others not to be saved.

Jesus spoke of those who would not enter into the kingdom of God and would not allow others to enter either.

"But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you close off the kingdom of the heavens in the face of men; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to enter." (Matt. 23:13)

" Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you go about the sea and the dry land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one , you make him twice as much a son of Gehenna as yourselves. "(v.15)

Is this really part of the mechanism of "salvation" as you see it?
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This is part of the Christ working out the justice of His words -

" He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters." (Matt. 12:30)

You intend to scatter and oppose our Gospel teaching. So I think I should probably stop giving you the benefit of a doubt that you have had some honest questions.

But yes, only time will tell what reward you will receive for the many words you've uttered to oppose the Gospel publically, whether in your neighborhood or in the neighborhood of the Internet.

And your militant anti-theism does come across as proselytizing.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
If he didn't watch it then when did he get the figures he's quoting from? You've watched it, are his figures correct? If so can you explain them?

This is a frequent tactic of yours sonship, you've done it to me in the past, hence why I don't bother watching anything you post. You'll post a video challenging people to watch it and then when they do and ask questions concerning the dodgy science in the video you don't bother answering them.

One has to make a decision about the weight of evidence.
Where is the greater weight of evidence?

Absolute PROOF can always be objected that, it is has not been provided.
I did not offer that video as absolute proof of a designed cell rather than a randomly accidently assembled one Darwinian style.

It is still possible that someone complain that a flaw of some kind is in the proposition.
Possibly, this is somewhat valid.
And possibly enough is there for one to consider where the greater weight of rational thought is.

And I think, if not proof, the greater weight of evidence is that the cell is a product of intelligent engineering. I am not interested in seeing how cleverly the skeptic can raise an objection about the method of analysis.

You see, I understand and know that probably someone can object that absolute proof has not been shown. For my own edification I may check out someone's objection to the video. But knowing that the objector didn't bother to watch anything beyond what he could exploit as a red herring argument, doesn't make it a high priority.

You make a decision where you think the greater weight of rational thought is.

The cell a product of Darwinian style assembly or
it is a product of intelligent invention ?

YOU decide what YOU want to believe.
I know what I decide. I decide for God the Creator and not chance as the source of this cell.

And even if it WAS the result of lucky accidents, the miraculous nature of the outcome still suggests strongly a guiding Mind behind such an event.

"You Don't Understand Evolution" doesn't impress me all that much.
Even if Evolution is a fact- the outcome is so miraculously effective I think it still shows God exists.

Now here's a mathematician speaking of the matter. And no doubt many here will disqualify him merely because he is a member of the Discovery Institute. albeit it seems an theologically agnostic one.

David Berlinsky (Author of The Devil's Delusion - Atheism's Scientific Pretensions )

Publishers usually name these books for sale rather than the authors.

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