22 Apr 16
Originally posted by sonshipHow God feels about each of us isn't in question. The fact that many now think it is properThink about it, higher education cannot tell the difference between a boy and girl, or a man or woman any more when they are right in front of them, and you think their reasoning can be trusted about events that may have occurred millions or billions or years ago?
I was taught that XX chromosomes make one a female and XY chromosomes make ...[text shortened]... a sex change also. Jesus lived and died and rose for their salvation as well.
Am I right?
to allow men to go into the women's bath rooms with women and little girls because they
claim they are also female is so sad. The danger they putting people in it isn't even funny
and yet some how it is viewed as the right thing to do, what a upside down world. Amazing
that a few years ago I recall there being a big stink on how long a man could look at a
woman before it was viewed as something bad, now into the showers they can go. Who
knew we were heading here?
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22 Apr 16
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Originally posted by KellyJayFor the Gospel it IS a matter of God's salvation extended to all men as to us. God still desires all men to be saved and come to the full knowledge of the truth.
How God feels about each of us isn't in question. The fact that many now think it is proper
to allow men to go into the women's bath rooms with women and little girls because they
claim they are also female is so sad. The danger they putting people in it isn't even funny
and yet some how it is viewed as the right thing to do, what a upside down world. Am ...[text shortened]... t was viewed as something bad, now into the showers they can go. Who
knew we were heading here?
I am not sure what you meant by "How God feels about each of us isn't the question."
Maybe you did not ask that question. But I think it is important to state how God desires all men to be saved and to come to the full knowledge of the truth.
So I have to turn hard to the Spirit of Jesus within and seek to see all men and women as through His eyes. I am not encouraging anyone to imitate these actions of pursuing a sex change.
I am not speaking of a magnanimous liberal social policy. I am speaking of the basics of the Christian Gospel. That's what I am living for.
Originally posted by sonshipWhy not, then, an unequivocal, non-cryptic, non-divisive revelation? The "desire" you speak of seems insincere, provocative, ineffective and, above all, man-made, mundane, and partisan ~ I'm talking about your theology and not an actual supernatural being.
But I think it is important to state how God desires all men to be saved and to come to the full knowledge of the truth.
This supposedly all-powerful all-seeing God figure's "desires", as you perceive them according to your beliefs, have only reached a minority of the human race over the last 2,000 years. And before you come back with your Oh so FMF knows better than God, does he? type retort, I am talking about your clumsy, far-fetched ideology, and not any "being" that you happen to believe exists.
22 Apr 16
Originally posted by sonshipNo argument from me God loves us all, He is not a respecter of people. He wants us all to come to Him for salvation.
For the Gospel it IS a matter of God's salvation extended to all men as to us. God still desires all men to be saved and come to the full knowledge of the truth.
I am not sure what you meant by "How God feels about each of us isn't the question."
Maybe you did not ask that question. But I think it is important to state how God desires all men to ...[text shortened]... cial policy. I am speaking of the basics of the Christian Gospel. That's what I am living for.
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22 Apr 16
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Originally posted by KazetNagorra
I see. Why is it plausible to you that a piece of wood is much more than the sum of its parts, yet it is unfathomable for you that a nervous system is much more than the sum of its parts?
I am not willing to stretch my imagination to think that a sense of moral standard is just a matter of the human nervous system just to get away from God.
When the Pharisees criticized Jesus for not following a certain religious tradition of washing the hands before a meal in order to avoid defilement, He responded about the things which proceed out of an immaterial "heart".
" Then some Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem, saying,
Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread." (Matt. 15:1,2)
His explanation of their shortsightedness explained that the defilement that they were missing involved what proceeded out of their psychological hearts and their mouths. These immaterial matters defile them before God and man.
"Do you not understand that everything that goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled into the drain?
But the things which proceed out of the mouth come out of the heart, and those defile man.
For out of the heart comes evil reasonings, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witnessings, blasphemies.
These are the things which defile the man, but eating with unwashed hands does not defile the man." (vs. 17-20)
I believe this was true 2,000 years ago. I believe it is still true today.
Two thousand years or so ago Jesus addressed the matter of moral defilement as not solely related to the physical stomach. Today, the same defilements are not merely related to the physical central nervous system.
Regardless of the stomach being more than the sum of its parts OR the central nervous system being more than the sum of its parts, there is another immaterial reality in the moral realm that is related to our moral and spiritual well being.
22 Apr 16
Originally posted by sonshipNo, you are not right. maleness or femaleness as in body structure are a result of hormones. There are many cases where the hormones do not reflect the XX or XY chromosomes of the person ie there are people who are structurally one sex but have the chromosomes you would expect of the other sex.
I was taught that XX chromosomes make one a female and XY chromosomes make one a male.
Am I right?
And this is before even talking about all the people who are not straight XX or XY as KazetNagorra already mentioned.
I suspect that Kelly would base his judgement on birth certificates which are not based on Chromosomes but on visual inspection by someone at birth. The reality is that many people are not easily distinguishable at birth. In addition, many people are not so easily distinguishable as adults. As others have said, there is a continuum.
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22 Apr 16
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Originally posted by FMF
Why not, then, an unequivocal, non-cryptic, non-divisive revelation?
Unequivocal [edited] you complain ?
Simple Definition of equivocal
: having two or more possible meanings
: not easily understood or explained
The most basic facts of the Gospel are pretty straightforward.
Jesus the Son of God came to save sinners, forgiving them through His redemptive death and resurrection. He is available to be our Lord and Savior.
Sometime when a man will not receive the simpler truths revealed to him by God, it is difficult for him to receive anything else related to maturing. IE.
" For every one who has, more shall be given, and he shall abound; but from him who does not have, even that which he has shall be taken away from him." (Matt. 25:29)
It is precious to receive some light from God's revelation, Once we receive some, God observes to see how we walk in that limited light we have received.
Some people who complain that the faith is too problematic, too opened to different interpretations, too difficult to agree upon and live, may be masking a failure to walk according to the initial light from God that they received. Stubbornness to walk in the clear light they received makes it hard to receive more. In some cases even what they once had seems to disappear.
If you cannot bring yourself, for example, to confess that you are a sinner and need God's forgiveness, it may be no surprise that complaining about too many schools of interpretation about predestination or free will become a refuge to nourish the hearer's controversy with the Holy Spirit and the Scripture.
A good prayer to pray if you are in this sad situation might be:
"Lord Jesus, please give me one simple way I can cooperate with your working in my heart. Give me a key Lord Jesus. Give me a simple opened door how I may go along with You in my life.
Lord Jesus, I do not today seek more knowledge of doctrinal things. I seek a simple way I can go along with You in the truth that you have shown me about myself."
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22 Apr 16
As for non-cryptic the Apostle Paul, in caring for the Christians in Corinth spoke of milk of the word of God and harder meat for the more mature.
Both are for feeding and nourishment. "Am I just getting more head knowledge or am I being spiritually fed ? " might be the question to muse before God. I would help someone truly seeking God to consider if his innermost spiritual sense is being nourished by the teaching.
If the teaching warms his heart towards Christ and influences him to depend on the living God, even if it is not too good of an interpretation, at least it is a safe one.
If the interpretation cools down one's love for Christ, causing him to be puffed up with knowledge and independence from God, lukewarm towards God or kills his appetite for prayer, praise, confession, or makes him not want to love other Christians, no matter how good the teaching sounds, there is probably something wrong with it.
"Does this give me MORE of Jesus ?" is a good question. Don't be afraid to follow any interpretation that stirs up more love for Christ. The Holy Spirit will adjust any seriously flawed understandings by and by.
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22 Apr 16
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As for divisive Jesus warned that some division cannot be avoided because men want to follow Him.
" Do not think I have come to bring peace on the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
For I have come to set men at variance: a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother; and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
And a man's enemies will be those of his household." (Matt. 10:34-36)
If this is understood properly, it is seen that some division may be unavoidable because one wants to live through Jesus Christ. This does not mean the Christian cannot still love those who don't agree with his following Jesus.
The "desire" you speak of seems insincere, provocative, ineffective and, above all, man-made, mundane, and partisan ~ I'm talking about your theology and not an actual supernatural being.
I do not blame God or God's desire for the failures of religious people or even genuine Christians. Disciples can "overcome" the surrounding degradation as is seen in the letters to the churches in Revelation 2 and 3.
Jesus did not say there would be no degradation. Jesus said His grace is sufficient that some overcomers are empowered to rise to a normal standard. We do not have to be all defeated.
My early prayer as a disciple was that God would put me with some brothers who could help me grow. I know that He answered that prayer. And I don't hunt for Christians who hurt my faith or discourage my faith. I seek fellowship with those who can help my faith and furnish encouraging examples.
This supposedly all-powerful all-seeing God figure's "desires", as you perceive them according to your beliefs, have only reached a minority of the human race over the last 2,000 years.
I don't use this as an excuse for anything. When the Lord Jesus says "[You] ... Follow Me" I want to follow Him. I could spend my whole life sitting there pointing to this guy, that guy, the other guy, those over there, these over here, complaining that they are not following the Lord.
He seems to not let me off the hook because of statistics. He said "[You] ... Follow Me." He is incomparable. Nothing can compete with His attractiveness. So I want to follow Him and not let my following be hampered by polls and statistics.
This just seems right to me, though I have some questions. This way just seems what He wants of me.
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22 Apr 16
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Originally posted by twhiteheadHe mentioned some variation, I confirmed it briefly and admitted there was more for me to learn.
No, you are not right. maleness or femaleness as in body structure are a result of hormones. There are many cases where the hormones do not reflect the XX or XY chromosomes of the person ie there are people who are structurally one sex but have the chromosomes you would expect of the other sex.
And this is before even talking about all the people who are ...[text shortened]... y people are not so easily distinguishable as adults. As others have said, there is a continuum.
Exceptions to many things occur in abnormalities. As I study these exceptions I will see if I am not right but just need to take into account some nuances.
Of course some Phd. can make a lot of money writing a book which opens a flood gate of people wanting to change their sex. I expect that on some nuances and valid abnormalities multitudes will find justification to try to change their sex - a fad.