Originally posted by FetchmyjunkDo you believe that the story of the thief on the cross, as told in one of the Gospels, means that Adolf Eichmann could possibly have avoided getting tortured for eternity [or whatever it is you believe "damnation" involves], and instead have ended up being "saved" in spite of his actions during his lifetime, as long as he repented and "accepted" Jesus with his dying words?
James 4:12 "There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbour?"
28 Aug 16
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkYou have told me that you don't know what the substance of the supposed "real justice" is. If it's not secret or unknowable to you, why not say what the substance is?
So in your mind, the theory that God will judge people in the afterlife according to his 'perfect justice' is "secret" or "unknowable"?
Originally posted by FMFGrace is underserved mercy. No one deserves God's mercy. But it is sufficient for the 'biggest' sinner on the planet.
Do you believe that the story of the thief on the cross, as told in one of the Gospels, means that Adolf Eichmann could [b]possibly have avoided getting tortured for eternity [or whatever it is you believe "damnation" involves], and instead have ended up being "saved" in spite of his actions during his lifetime, as long as he repented and "accepted" Jesus with his dying words?[/b]
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkSo, Adolf Eichmann being "saved" because he "repented" and "accepted" Jesus with his dying words [even as millions of his victims may have faced "damnation" simply for not believing in Christ] would be an example of "real" or "perfect" justice?
Grace is underserved mercy. No one deserves God's mercy. But it is sufficient for the 'biggest' sinner on the planet.
Originally posted by FMFGrace is available to all, it can either be accepted or rejected. Seems fair to me.
So, Adolf Eichmann being "saved" because he "repented" and "accepted" Jesus with his dying words [even as millions of his victims may have faced "damnation" simply for not believing in Christ] would be an example of "real" or "perfect" justice?
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkAh well, that's better. You are attempting to offer some substance. If "undeserved mercy" is "real justice" then I don't think it can be "justice" at all. If "justice" and "injustice" don't relate to what is fair or deserved and what is unfair or undeserved, then I think you must be playing word games or using the word "justice" in a bizarre, unconventional way. Your notion of "real justice" seems to be somewhere between capriciousness and "smell the glove".
Grace is available to all, it can either be accepted or rejected. Seems fair to me.
Originally posted by FMFSo in your opinion "real justice" is when a pedophile who never gets caught, eventually dies a normal death, and ultimately 'gets away with it'? You don't seem to have a problem with that but you have a problem with a pedophile who repents and accepts the grace of God and then 'gets away with it'? How open minded of you.
Ah well, that's better. You are attempting to offer some substance. If "undeserved mercy" is "real justice" then I don't think it can be "justice" at all. If "justice" and "justice" don't relate to what is fair or deserved and what is unfair or undeserved, then I think you must be playing word games or using the word "justice" in a bizarre, unconventional way. Your notion of "real justice" seems to be somewhere between capriciousness and "smell the glove".
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkWell, first of all, as I said before - and you didn't seem to read or comprehend - to me the word "real" is merely an intensifier that religionists like you [and other people with passionate opinions about justice] like to add to it in order to exhibit the strength of their convictions.
So in your opinion "real justice" is when a pedophile who never gets caught, eventually dies a normal death, and ultimately gets away with it?
So I don't use the term "real justice" except when posing questions to people like you who choose to refer to your preferred notions of justice as "real justice" because you are trying to give the impression that what you are talking about is more "real" than something else.
I believe that justice for a criminal pedophile would be some combination of custodial sentence, restricted actions, treatment/counselling. If he never gets caught then that will mean he will have escaped justice. I don't think there are any claims you can make about supernatural occurrences or supernatural beings that can change that.
What "real justice" do you personally think awaits a pedophile who never gets caught and eventually dies a normal death?
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkHuh? What do you mean I "don't seem to have a problem with a pedophile" escaping justice? Where did I say that?
You don't seem to have a problem with that but you have a problem with a pedophile who repents and accepts the grace of God and then 'gets away with it'? How open minded of you.
As for a pedophile getting "undeserved mercy", I simply do not see "justice" in that. If the pedophile were to be prosecuted in court and was acquitted as a result of "undeserved mercy", I can't see the justice in that, regardless of how repentant and apologetic the perpetrator was.
Originally posted by FMFSo in your mind 'real justice' does not actually exist and 'justice' is only a concept that applies to people that are caught?
Well, first of all, as I said before - and you didn't seem to read or comprehend - to me the word "real" is merely an intensifier that religionists like you [and other people with passionate opinions about justice] like to add to it in order to exhibit the strength of their convictions.
So I don't use the term "real justice" except when posing questions to p ...[text shortened]... ou personally think awaits a pedophile who never gets caught and eventually dies a normal death?
So would you say it is an 'injustice' if someone escapes 'justice'?
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkChristians around the world, for example, disagree sharply about what constitutes "justice" and "injustice". They can and often do make diametrically opposite decisions concerning their views on "justice" are; so much for a supposed "unchanging point of reference" that makes "sure that their view is the right one". How do you explain this in the context of the "unchanging point of reference" that you claim you and other Christians have?
I can only think your view is wrong if I have an unchanging point of reference. What is your unchanging point of reference?
28 Aug 16
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkYou are unable to tell me what the substance of this "real justice" you keep mentioning is. You won't even say what "real justice" you think awaits a pedophile who never gets caught. The notion of justice as a deserved consequence for immoral or criminal acts is something that applies to all perpetrators whether they are caught or not. The fact that some people escape these consequences or the fact that justice is not always served to those who deserve it, does not mean that the notion of justice is "is only a concept that applies to people who are caught".
So in your mind 'real justice' does not actually exist and 'justice' is only a concept that applies to people that are caught?
28 Aug 16
Originally posted by FMFIf justice is not absolute (i.e based on an unchanging truth), it is simply a matter of personal opinion.
Christians around the world, for example, disagree sharply about what constitutes "justice" and "injustice". They can and often do make diametrically opposite decisions concerning their views on "justice" are; so much for a supposed "unchanging point of reference" that makes "sure that their view is the right one". How do you explain this in the context of the "unchanging point of reference" that you claim you and other Christians have?