Spirituality
21 Jun 14
Originally posted by Rajk999You are a person who is clearly not well.
The mighty FreakyKBH brought to his knees ..😀
I love it.
Whats more, by a man who says the kindest words possible even to the most arrogant of posters.
Well deserved though.
There is medicine for such issues.
Get thee to a doctor.
24 Jun 14
Originally posted by AgergPan to the smug atheists passively standing on the sideline, giving the camera a self-referential glance as if to say, 'see what I mean?'
Replace film actors guild with moderate theists, Kim Jong Il with fundamentalists, then Team America sums up the situation we have here almost perfectly in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32iCWzpDpKs (NSFW)
It's gold, Jerry!
25 Jun 14
Originally posted by sonhouseSuzianne:
Tell me why you think my words are ignorant.
The ignorant thinking in sonhouse's thread ("A new religion, IF THERE WAS A GOD:" ) made me unable to resist posting in it.
sonhouse:
Tell me why you think my words are ignorant.
I suppose Suzianne is not going to answer your question, so let me ask you a question:
Would you rather be called willingly ignorant or a fool?
Psalm 14:1
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.”
25 Jun 14
Originally posted by FreakyKBHBut according to you, not cogent.
Twhitehead is "...interested in the psychological aspects of why you believe something so ridiculous," among other seemingly scholarly reasons.
He also admits a desire to help find out "...if anything can be done about the God delusion."
Very philanthropic of him, we assume.
I suspect that you would not accept any explanation unless it matched your own preconceived notions of why I am here.
Originally posted by josephwSounds good. Good enough I almost gave in.
Sounds good. Good enough I almost gave in. 🙂
Thing is though that negative personal remarks do nothing to advance understanding. I don't know if it's worth keeping score as to 'which side' is winning or losing. Don't care. What I care about is developing an irrefutable argument to the effect that we all win. Believe it or not.
You write well Rat, but ...[text shortened]... it comes to comprehending Biblical spiritual concepts the atheist mind is closed. That's a fact.
Bugger. So close, yet so far away.
Thing is though that negative personal remarks do nothing to advance understanding.
josephw wrote: [the atheists’] narrow, bigoted and biased minds
I don't know if it's worth keeping score as to 'which side' is winning or losing. Don't care. What I care about is developing an irrefutable argument to the effect that we all win. Believe it or not.
I think you and your fellow theists want atheists and believers of different religions to start believing your version of “the truth” because the more people believe what you believe, the less reasons you have to doubt your worldview.
You write well Rat, but you also put down as well, and that doesn't further anyone's agenda.
josephw wrote: [the atheists’] narrow, bigoted and biased minds
Maybe it makes you feel good about yourself one upping the weaker fellow. IDK. Thing is I get a charge out of thinking I 'won that one' too, just like anyone else. I think it means we're all human after all.
You had been in doubt about that?
In the church we practice a spiritual thing called 'esteeming others as better than our selves', and condescending to those of simpler estate.
I don’t know what you mean by this. Please elucidate.
I try to be kind to atheists
josephw wrote: [the atheists’] narrow, bigoted and biased minds
One thing is true though, Christians take the brunt of the insults thrown around in here.
josephw wrote: [the atheists’] narrow, bigoted and biased minds
Perhaps someone with time on their hands could tabulate a score. I wouldn't necessarily be interested in the results though one way or another.
So you make a matter-of-fact statement about how “you Christians” are being insulted more than others (notice the recurring victim playing behaviour. Once you start paying attention to it it comes up A LOT) but then quickly add you’re not really interested in whether or not it is true. Weak, buddy, very weak. Either stand behind you accusations or keep them to yourself. Don’t throw them around and then quickly run away.
Besides, just because Christians are more prevalent here than any other theistic group doesn’t mean our “insults” are specifically aimed at you. I’m sure that most people here (atheist and theist) would love it if other religions would be more present around here. And have you noticed how often the JWs get attacked on this board, even though there are only two (?) of them posting regularly?
This one thing: No atheist will ever understand a Christian, and not because the Christian is illogical or irrational, any more than the atheist, but because when it comes to comprehending Biblical spiritual concepts the atheist mind is closed. That's a fact.
When someone doesn’t agree with you, just say he doesn’t understand you. Because that’s a rock-solid argument.
Please, explain to me what you mean by “close-minded”. It’s an “argument” (for lack of a more appropriate word) that gets used very often, yet I don’t know what is meant by it. Please explain what you mean by it.
25 Jun 14
Originally posted by PatNovakMy mistake, guess I assumed you was talking about atheists.
Then it must have been a "perfect, spot-on observation," because I was addressing theists with that statement.
Well played 🙂
p.s. Vistesd probably wrote one of the best posts I've ever read.
"Dogmatism - under any mantle - I see as really the enemy of spirituality. And there have been, and are, theists on here who preach their particular religion without demonstrating a shred of spirit in the process - as they denounce any deconstructive threat to their cherished theological dogma, and anyone who challenges that dogma."
That is an excellent observation.
Originally posted by BigDoggProblemThis is a difficult one to explain. No one wants to be told they 'don't get it', but in terms of what the Bible has to say about 'spiritual' matters as they relate to the soul and heart of a man and his relationship to God are simply beyond the understanding of an unbeliever.
I'm not sure this is true. I was a Christian for many years. I'd like to think I understood the spiritual concepts as well as most. Now, naturally you probably won't agree, since you'll say that I wouldn't have stopped being a Christian had I truly understood the concepts. However, I think even now the Bible has some useful spiritual concepts to offer. Just not the ones that require theism. 🙂
What is difficult to explain is why it is beyond the understanding. The union between God and man occurs by the will of God. It is God's will that all men know Him, but not all men know Him. Seems a contradiction. It would be except for volition.
God, and only God, can make The Way, but a man must will to believe. That's all a man can do to be in The Way.
The reason why a man doesn't 'find' The Way is because he gets in his own way and stumbles at the will of God.
Originally posted by josephwBut you can't 'will to believe'. That's not how belief works.
This is a difficult one to explain. No one wants to be told they 'don't get it', but in terms of what the Bible has to say about 'spiritual' matters as they relate to the soul and heart of a man and his relationship to God are simply beyond the understanding of an unbeliever.
What is difficult to explain is why it is beyond the understanding. The union be ...[text shortened]... a man doesn't 'find' The Way is because he gets in his own way and stumbles at the will of God.
Originally posted by CalJust"There is a desparate need for us to change our vocabulary,..
The totally ironical thing is that that is exactly what Christians are being accused of! (Your mind being closed).
Would YOU honestly say that YOUR mind is open for new insights? That you would be prepared to concede for even a microsecond that the atheist point of view has any validity at all?
There is the problem. Because you KNOW that you are right ...[text shortened]... ur vocabulary, if we ever believe that we will be able to converse meaningfully with each other.
For the one that claims to believe, the vocabulary is the Word of God. If we ever hope to arrive at the truth, and experience 'the unity of the faith', we must take God at His Word. Every Christian struggles with that, which is why there is disagreement between Christians, because the concept of the inerrancy of scripture is stumbled at.
God's Word is the final authority on all matters of life and living.
The 'problem' lies with the atheist, not the Christian, when it comes to having a closed mind. The Christian's mind is opened to the Word of God. The mind of the atheist is closed to the Word of God. Therefore the atheist is blind to spiritual truth.
Of course, that assumes the validity of the authority of God's Word.
Originally posted by BigDoggProblemBelieving is a choice.
But you can't 'will to believe'. That's not how belief works.
Salvation occurs after one trusts, after one believes, after one hears.
Ephesians 1:13
In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,..
The order may appear wrong to you at first glance.
25 Jun 14
Originally posted by josephwSo you agree with the logic behind Pascal's wager?
Believing is a choice.
Salvation occurs after one trusts, after one believes, after one hears.
Ephesians 1:13
In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,..
The order may appear wrong to you at first glance.
Originally posted by josephwIf believing's really a choice, you should be able to choose that the moon's made of green cheese, or that things fall up.
Believing is a choice.
Salvation occurs after one trusts, after one believes, after one hears.
Ephesians 1:13
In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,..
The order may appear wrong to you at first glance.
But you can't, because belief is an evaluation of experience and evidence rather than a choice.
Put down the Bible and think about this one for awhile.
Originally posted by josephwMost people, make choices for a reasons or reasons.
Believing is a choice.
Now, since choosing to believe presumes no prior belief, choosing to believe cannot be based on the belief that the thing to be believed in is factual.
So, given that you did not believe God existed prior to believing that he did, what were your reasons for choosing to believe that he did exist?
Was it evidence? A personal experience? Personal desire for it to be true?