Adieu

Originally posted by twhitehead
Most people, make choices for a reasons or reasons.
Now, since choosing to believe presumes no prior belief, choosing to believe cannot be based on the belief that the thing to be believed in is factual.
So, given that you did not believe God existed prior to believing that he did, what were your reasons for choosing to believe that he did exist?
Was it evidence? A personal experience? Personal desire for it to be true?

Evidence, personal experience, and personal desire are all included in our reasons to believe God exists.

Originally posted by twhitehead
But according to you, not cogent.
I suspect that you would not accept any explanation unless it matched your own preconceived notions of why I am here.

It would be impossible to match any preconceived ideas, since I literally cannot fathom any reason a person who has put considerable thought into a decision would continue revisiting the topic for years and years.

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
But you can't 'will to believe'. That's not how belief works.

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
But you can't 'will to believe'. That's not how belief works.

BDP, how does belief work within your experiential and rational view of human life on planet earth?

Originally posted by DeepThought
So you agree with the logic behind Pascal's wager?

No. I agree with God.

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
If believing's really a choice, you should be able to choose that the moon's made of green cheese, or that things fall up.

But you can't, because belief is an evaluation of experience and evidence rather than a choice.

Put down the Bible and think about this one for awhile.

"If believing's really a choice, you should be able to choose that the moon's made of green cheese, or that things fall up."

Only an idiot would read that sentence and think it's logical.

".., because belief is an evaluation of experience and evidence rather than a choice."

So far so good.

"Put down the Bible and think about this one for awhile."

When you come up with something more interesting to read.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Most people, make choices for a reasons or reasons.
Now, since choosing to believe presumes no prior belief, choosing to believe cannot be based on the belief that the thing to be believed in is factual.
So, given that you did not believe God existed prior to believing that he did, what were your reasons for choosing to believe that he did exist?
Was it evidence? A personal experience? Personal desire for it to be true?

Too condescending to reply to, and to presumptuous. You need to slow it down some because you missed the whole point of what I am saying about belief and choice.

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"If believing's really a choice, you should be able to choose that the moon's made of green cheese, or that things fall up."

Only an idiot would read that sentence and think it's logical.

".., because belief is an evaluation of experience and evidence rather than a choice."

So far so good.

"Put down the Bible and think about this one for awhile."

When you come up with something more interesting to read.[/b]

Well, the statement is my summary of your position, so either you're the idiot, or you needed to better explain your position.

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
Well, the statement is my summary of your position, so either you're the idiot, or you needed to better explain your position.

Only an idiot would believe your summary is a statement of my position. Reveal Hidden Content

You need to do a better job of listening to what I mean by the things I say. Reveal Hidden Content

Originally posted by josephw
Only an idiot would believe your summary is a statement of my position. [hidden]Of course I don't really think you're an idiot.[/hidden]

You need to do a better job of listening to what I mean by the things I say. [hidden]My language is plain and simple and to the point and without guile.[/hidden]

It's the writer's job to express what they mean to say. It's not the reader's job to decode it for you. 😴

Originally posted by josephw
No. I agree with God.

It's not clear to me that belief is a choice. Certainly not for everyone. The logic in Pascal's Wager is that one may as well choose to believe as that gains the best outcome. What you were saying sounded similar to this.

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
It's the writer's job to express what they mean to say. It's not the reader's job to decode it for you. 😴

The coder usually expects the decoder to be proficient in understanding the code. So are you saying that you don't understand the code?

Originally posted by DeepThought
It's not clear to me that belief is a choice. Certainly not for everyone. The logic in Pascal's Wager is that one may as well choose to believe as that gains the best outcome. What you were saying sounded similar to this.

Deep Thought, it occurs to me that there's an implicit cost in replacing complete or partial ignorance [and apprehension] with relevant information assimilated as knowledge [and confidence] in any educational realm: a cost that always involves the acceptance of authority which requires enforced [as with young children] or genuine humility, a price self absorption and arrogance typically refuse to pay. Implicit cost because learning often requires unlearning as well as the realization that you're letting go of comfortable old intellectual clothes. Never realized you "Joined 27 Oct '04". Almost a decade! -Bob

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
It would be impossible to match any preconceived ideas, since I literally cannot fathom any reason a person who has put considerable thought into a decision would continue revisiting the topic for years and years.

So you have no idea why I come here, but nevertheless reject any explanation I give?

Originally posted by josephw
You need to slow it down some because you missed the whole point of what I am saying about belief and choice.

If I missed the point, please clarify. Or are you just trying to ensure that your claim that I cannot understand because I am an atheist remains true, by being deliberately vague?

Originally posted by RJHinds
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

[b]The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” [/b]

In ancient times the uneducated gave special credence to the written word.
Writing down spells et cetera.
In the Modern World we know anything can be written - and words in a book have no special power.