27 Nov 12
Some thoughts on sin. The concept of sin can be equated with error, or 'missing the mark' of some standard of behaviour. What non arbitrary standard? Well, setting aside the egregious malarkey of Original Sin, it seems certain behaviour patterns are socially castigated for the personal or social harm they wreak. You could call it non adaptive behaviour. The carnivalesque mediaeval personification of the Seven Deadly Sins makes this clear. Consider the figure of Gluttony and the monkey that falls for the bottle-trap. Its hand slides into the bottle and it clutches the nuts, but it can't get its clutching hand out. Still, it won't let go of the nuts it craves, and here comes the farmer with his instrument of death. It seems clear the monkey has succumbed to Gluttony.
27 Nov 12
Originally posted by Bosse de NageIt only seems so. It is far more likely that the monkey simply doesn't realise that it must let go in order to get its hand out.
Consider the figure of Gluttony and the monkey that falls for the bottle-trap. Its hand slides into the bottle and it clutches the nuts, but it can't get its clutching hand out. Still, it won't let go of the nuts it craves, and here comes the farmer with his instrument of death. It seems clear the monkey has succumbed to Gluttony.
Also Gluttony is desiring more food than is good for you nutritionally - or in the worst case, indulging in excessive eating at the expense of others. I don't see why either of these descriptions necessarily apply to the monkey. After all, he may be starving.
27 Nov 12
Originally posted by karoly aczelNo. It's an absurd notion.
Or do we learn it?
I believe this has been an enduring question with very strong opinions on both sides.
First of all, do you think I could just get a few "yes" or "no's" to this question?
Just to establish where we stand.
BTW, I think kids are born perfectly innocent and bit by bit they learn sillyness, which if not dealt with by the parent can l ...[text shortened]... 4 or 15 can develop into what is know commonly as evil.
Devils influence? I dont think so.
27 Nov 12
1 edit
Originally posted by Bosse de NageDo you resonate with the concept of sin being "God"eclipsing?
Some thoughts on sin. The concept of sin can be equated with error, or 'missing the mark' of some standard of behaviour. What non arbitrary standard? Well, setting aside the egregious malarkey of Original Sin, it seems certain behaviour patterns are socially castigated for the personal or social harm they wreak. You could call it non adaptive behaviour he farmer with his instrument of death. It seems clear the monkey has succumbed to Gluttony.
I thought it was a novel take on it when I first heard it. (I guess cause 'sin' is accosiated with religion instead of just words like 'bad' or 'evil'😉
Kinda means if you take away all that is superfluous ,what you have left is "God". Or Your self (?) Bloody language!!
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27 Nov 12
Originally posted by karoly aczeldefinitely not. i dont like the word 'evil' it implies an outside mystical influence of man. man does bad things for numerous reason, but not because of a mystical force. the majority of if i think is the result of nurture, although i will accept nature plays a small part. it you look at prison records it shows that people who have normal, safe, loving childhoods rarely end up in prison.
Or do we learn it?
I believe this has been an enduring question with very strong opinions on both sides.
First of all, do you think I could just get a few "yes" or "no's" to this question?
Just to establish where we stand.
BTW, I think kids are born perfectly innocent and bit by bit they learn sillyness, which if not dealt with by the parent can l ...[text shortened]... 4 or 15 can develop into what is know commonly as evil.
Devils influence? I dont think so.
i think in the right conditions even as adults we can be effected by the world around us. through history nice people have been driven to do horrific things because they have been broken and de-humanized.
27 Nov 12
Originally posted by stellspalfieAh yes, but with noticable exceptions. The so-called well raised kids ("well-raised" measured mainly by material and emotional happiness/contentedness), have notorious exceptions, often extremely intelligent, bored young adults who know how to work the system and make the guiltier looking man take the fall.
definitely not. i dont like the word 'evil' it implies an outside mystical influence of man. man does bad things for numerous reason, but not because of a mystical force. the majority of if i think is the result of nurture, although i will accept nature plays a small part. it you look at prison records it shows that people who have normal, safe, loving ...[text shortened]... people have been driven to do horrific things because they have been broken and de-humanized.
Broken and dehumanized is also kinda cliched.
I seriously don't think you think the world's intelligence is as sophisticated as I do.
While I do admit to huge discrepency between some, the internet is quickly bringing people to a more level playing field.
27 Nov 12
Originally posted by karoly aczelI reject your premises.
If there is this huge influx of population,all these billions of extra "good" people, (the population curve since around 1900), then why does "bad" seem to win out?
Is "Bad" losing? Is there no "bad", just ignorance?
Concerning "bad" versus "good," neither is winning. There's just life.
27 Nov 12
Originally posted by karoly aczelId just like to point out you failed to define evil.
Or do we learn it?
I believe this has been an enduring question with very strong opinions on both sides.
First of all, do you think I could just get a few "yes" or "no's" to this question?
Just to establish where we stand.
BTW, I think kids are born perfectly innocent and bit by bit they learn sillyness, which if not dealt with by the parent can l ...[text shortened]... 4 or 15 can develop into what is know commonly as evil.
Devils influence? I dont think so.
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27 Nov 12
1 edit
Originally posted by karoly aczel"The so-called well raised kids ("well-raised" measured mainly by material and emotional happiness/contentedness), have notorious exceptions,
Ah yes, but with noticable exceptions. The so-called well raised kids ("well-raised" measured mainly by material and emotional happiness/contentedness), have notorious exceptions, often extremely intelligent, bored young adults who know how to work the system and make the guiltier looking man take the fall.
Broken and dehumanized is also kinda cli repency between some, the internet is quickly bringing people to a more level playing field.
youve hit the nail on the head they are 'so-called' well raised, not actually well raised at all. socially people often measure 'well-raised' by material means. studies often show the opposite to be true. material wealth often shows an increase in depression, low self esteem and in some situation an emotional disconnect. a child really only needs two thing love and security.
Broken and dehumanized is also kinda cliched.
i dont understand, how is being dehumanized a cliche? are you saying you think the term is over used?
I seriously don't think you think the world's intelligence is as sophisticated as I do.
im not really sure i know what you mean here? ive not mentioned intelligence.
27 Nov 12
2 edits
Originally posted by karoly aczelbad? an apple may be bad but one hardly considers it evil. You don't know? Don't you think it might be better for you to first define what you think evil is and then you may be in a better position to answer the question that you posed originally?
doing bad things with bad consequences for others and not caring...
I dont know.
Just say "are we born bad?" if that's easier.
27 Nov 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhy dont you get into the spirit of the question?
bad? an apple may be bad but one hardly considers it evil. You don't know? Don't you think it might be better for you to first define what you think evil is and then you may be in a better position to answer the question that you posed originally?