Are we born evil?

Originally posted by sumydid
Ok then, please explain why every baby in its early development stages, learns--among other things--to lie, and learns selfish behavior, i.e. crying to manipulate others into giving it what it wants... all on its own.

So you would characterize the manipulative crying or lie of a baby at an early stage of development as "sin" - an offence against a God that [some] adults believe in - and not as a part of its learning how it can interact with its human environment and learning what the people around it consider to be acceptable and unacceptable in a way that is consistent with its early stage of development? Am I understanding you correctly?

Originally posted by sumydid
Are we born evil?

It's hard to answer yes or no, because it depends on how you define "evil." So get that out of the way first. Some people think "evil" is the equivalent of serial killer tendencies, for example.

Oh. I see I'm way behind in the thread. Ok, moving on.... are we getting more intelligent? Absolutely not. I would expect the opposite, ...[text shortened]... d the less intelligent people tend to have larger families.... so, do the math from there.

So we are getting less intelligent despite every parent that I've met saying how they weren't as smart as their kids at the same age.

smart kids are born from dumb parents all the time.

you are painting a picture that is going to be hard to back up with any evidence

Originally posted by sumydid
Ok then, please explain why every baby in its early development stages, learns--among other things--to lie, and learns selfish behavior, i.e. crying to manipulate others into giving it what it wants... all on its own.

However, if you don't consider lying and selfishness to be "evil" or even "sinful," then... there isn't much left to discuss because we define the words differently to the point where we can't compare apples to apples.

So will you teach your children not to cry as it is selfish sinful behaviour? Will you also teach them not to eat as that too is clearly selfish and thus evil and sinful?
Do you eat? Do you consider yourself evil and sinful for eating?
Now if you were talking about pooping, and dirty napies, you might get more sympathy.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
You mean like not actually knowing what the definitions of 'sin' and 'evil' are or how
they differ in respect to each other, well well, and all the while maintaining to offer
some kind of opinions based on their usage? its hard for Christians or any other
thinking person for that matter to be convinced by your assertions of superstition and
i ...[text shortened]... ouldn't you be gaining energy from your crystal or knitting yourself underwear from
hemp?

morning robbie, any thoughts on improving the design of a spalax yet?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Please tell the forum how these modified grains were better than the original?[/b]

I never mentioned GM and even if I did one example of yours does not mean no improvements have been made.

I'm talking about selective breeding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physiological_and_molecular_wheat_breeding

Originally posted by wolfgang59
I never mentioned GM and even if I did one example of yours does not mean no improvements have been made.

I'm talking about selective breeding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physiological_and_molecular_wheat_breeding

as you are aware Wolfie, I could cite numerous examples of attempts by humans to
improve on the original which have had disastrous human consequences, you could cite
numerous examples where human endeavour has produced an, 'improvement', but
there are greater forces at work than the mere science of the matter, economics for
example is a monster. I see the matter as a kind of pawn move, it achieves
something but may leaves weakness in its wake. How many varieties of corn can
you cite? How many varieties of corn do you find in the supermarket? Have you
tasted a home grown tomato? how does it compare to a tomato bought at the
supermarket? a strain of wheat may give a greater yield but it may require more
soil conditioning and thus more nitrogen is released into the atmosphere. Indian
farmers fill their fields with sea water to breed prawns for Europe and in the process
make the fields untenable for anything else. call me a Luddite and you would be
right, not all so called progress actually is progress and in many instances, the
original is still the best.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
as you are aware Wolfie, I could cite numerous examples of attempts by humans to
improve on the original which have had disastrous human consequences, you could cite
numerous examples where human endeavour has produced an, 'improvement', but
there are greater forces at work than the mere science of the matter, economics for
example is a monst ...[text shortened]... he matter as a kind of pawn move, it achieves something
but may leaves weakness in its wake.

afternoon robbie......................are you ready to improve gods work with the poor unfortunate spalax yet?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
afternoon robbie......................are you ready to improve gods work with the poor unfortunate spalax yet?

No i dont care about your digging rats and anyway i have plastering and coving to
finish for my mom, sorry, have a pleasant afternoon. In the meantime you might like
to read of attempts to imptove upon Drosophila melanogaster,

The clear-cut mutants of Drosophila, with which so much of the classical research in
genetics was done, are almost without exception inferior to wild-type flies in viability,
fertility, longevity. - Dobzhansky

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
No i dont care about your digging rats and anyway i have plastering and coving to
finish for my mom, sorry, have a pleasant afternoon. In the meantime you might like
to read of attempts to imptove upon Drosophila melanogaster,

The clear-cut mutants of Drosophila, with which so much of the classical research in
genetics was done, are almost ...[text shortened]... without exception inferior to wild-type flies in viability,
fertility, longevity. - Dobzhansky

how many walls does your mother have!!!!

you dont have to care about them, just improve them. a child could do it.

ill read about drosophila flies if you tell me why they are relevant to intelligent design and tell me how you can improve the spalax.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
as you are aware Wolfie, I could cite numerous examples of attempts by humans to
improve on the original which have had disastrous human consequences, you could cite
numerous examples where human endeavour has produced an, 'improvement', but
there are greater forces at work than the mere science of the matter, economics for
example is a monst ...[text shortened]... called progress actually is progress and in many instances, the
original is still the best.

I read , some ten years ago, that (some) government was buying the seeds of Indian farmers and modifying them so that they will become "terminator seeds", ie. that they will only yield one specific crop and not be able to produce more seeds, as nature would've had it, but that the people would have to keep buying seeds every year - or something like that.
Apparently there is a huge underground seed bank that has all the most important seeds stored there. (So if the surface gets wiped out, 'they' will have all they need to grow more food.)
Evil stuff!!
Our, "God" given food being tampered with to control the market. "They" certainly realize that the people can be controlled through food availability if the other control methods start failing (like Christanity)

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Apparently there is a huge underground seed bank that has all the most important seeds stored there. (So if the surface gets wiped out, 'they' will have all they need to grow more food.)
Evil stuff!!

There are underground seed banks all over the world and there is nothing evil about them.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I read , some ten years ago, that (some) government was buying the seeds of Indian farmers and modifying them so that they will become "terminator seeds", ie. that they will only yield one specific crop and not be able to produce more seeds, as nature would've had it, but that the people would have to keep buying seeds every year - or something like tha through food availability if the other control methods start failing (like Christanity)

Its in Norway, the seed banks you refer to, what has been done to the Indian farmers is
criminal. Christianity has not failed, in fact, there is a greater need to embrace Christian
principles than ever before, the failure lies in the people who have not adopted its
principles and who cannot tell the difference between their bum and their elbow in a
spiritual sense.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
how many walls does your mother have!!!!

you dont have to care about them, just improve them. a child could do it.

ill read about drosophila flies if you tell me why they are relevant to intelligent design and tell me how you can improve the spalax.

my son, I am a master plasterer, I don't improve walls, i turn them into works of art and
no, its not child's play, it calls for judgment, experience, skill, ability and technique and
is nothing short of a mode of self expression. Fruit flies are important because there
were millions of attempts to generate mutations and find improvements on the original,
all of which practically failed.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
my son, I am a master plasterer, I don't improve walls, i turn them into works of art and
no, its not child's play, it calls for judgment, experience, skill, ability and technique and
is nothing short of a mode of self expression. Fruit flies are important because there
were millions of attempts to generate mutations and find improvements on the original,
all of which practically failed.

not being able to improve one animal proves nothing, especially as they were trying to improve something specific rather than just trying to improve anything about it. if we couldnt improve any animals that would be something indeed.


now, where were we....oh yes the spalax.

Originally posted by twhitehead
There are underground seed banks all over the world and there is nothing evil about them.

They are not the ones I'm referring to. Unfortunatley I dont have the source for my info handy, so I will just have to defer on my last post and get back to it when I have more solid info.