13 May 11
13 May '11 12:40
Originally posted by Doward
Belief is not the same as faith, at least that's how I see it. Many people believe in this or that, yet they lack the will, desire or faith to act upon those beliefs. To get specific I largely mean Christians. Many here profess belief, but do they follow Christ? And I don't mean there very narrow view, but truly follow Christ? Are they people of faith. When C ...[text shortened]... n awesome power in acting on faith, yet people seldom seem inclined to do so.
thoughts?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hebrews 11:6a - But without faith it is impossible to please him:
Faith always has an object. How can faith be blind if it has an object? Faith is a little understood concept, and sadly, little used.
Colossians 2:6 - As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
How do we receive Christ? By faith. So is the walk. It is not blind!
13 May 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI get that, but crying for proof so you can justify your ability to have faith is
because that is what faith is based upon, its not blind as has been erroneously
assumed, its based upon reason, an evident demonstration of reality, although not
yet beheld.
(Hebrews 11:1) . . .Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, [b]the
evident demonstration of realities though not beheld. . .
Thus as the Bible writ ...[text shortened]... n certain evidences, which
demonstrate a reality, although at present, are not fully manifest.[/b]
really saying you don't want to have faith.
Kelly
13 May 11
Originally posted by AgergI'm not sure I'd call that faith saying that number is prime, it could be a
As for my take on belief vs faith, there are things I believe to be true which I don't actually `know' to be factual - but I could go away and check if suspicion got the better of me. Faith on the other hand seems a bit like saying 171,727,482,883 is prime[hidden]it isn\'t! change the last digit to a 1[/hidden]for no reason other than...well...it looks prime doesn't it!?
mistaken belief or not, but what are you walking out on with that belief? Now
you may believe all life came from nothing in the beginning, and you live your
life beholding to no creator, that would be walking out your life according to
faith, or you could believe there was one and walk out your life according to
that belief as well.
Kelly
13 May 11
belief is it not the practice of your faith. . i know that the sacriment is holy but if it gets dropped after being blessed throw it away.. it does not turn into the body of christ, it represents the body, similar to the wine. thats my belief . my faith teachs me to learn for myself rather than be doctrined . if im on the wrong lines to this post sorry..
13 May 11
Originally posted by DowardThose words always seemed a little interchangeable to me, this discussion has
Belief is not the same as faith, at least that's how I see it. Many people believe in this or that, yet they lack the will, desire or faith to act upon those beliefs. To get specific I largely mean Christians. Many here profess belief, but do they follow Christ? And I don't mean there very narrow view, but truly follow Christ? Are they people of faith. When C ...[text shortened]... n awesome power in acting on faith, yet people seldom seem inclined to do so.
thoughts?
cleared that up for me at least. Well done on the topic, thanks.
Kelly
13 May 11
8 edits
Originally posted by KellyJayIf it is a mistaken belief, then you have sufficient false data or knowledge to convince you it is prime.
I'm not sure I'd call that faith saying that number is prime, it could be a
mistaken belief or not, but what are you walking out on with that belief? Now
you may believe all life came from nothing in the beginning, and you live your
life beholding to no creator, that would be walking out your life according to
faith, or you could believe there was one and walk out your life according to
that belief as well.
Kelly
Where I mean suffiency of data or knowledge in the sense that it is enough so to compel a person to conclude, validly, something which is false- not that the knowledge itself is valid
That's pretty much the kernel of a mistake: X, Y, Z all imply W so you conclude W. But unknown to you at the time of holding some belief, one of X, Y, Z is wrong.
Faith on the otherhand is having insufficient data or knowledge and believing something anyway.
Just noticed your sneaky association of, "faith" with holding that 'all life came from nothing',
I suspect many of us don\'t actually hold that view anyway, at least, certainly not the way you falsely describe it
and the association of "belief" with your position...you sly old fox you! ;]13 May 11
Originally posted by AgergIt is the same in my opinion, not trying to slip anything past you.
If it is a mistaken belief, then you have sufficient false data or knowledge to convince you it is prime.[hidden]Where I mean suffiency of data or knowledge in the sense that it is enough so to compel a person to conclude, validly, something which is false- not that the knowledge itself is valid[/hidden]That's pretty much the kernel of a mistake: X, Y, Z all i ...[text shortened]... den]and the association of [b]"belief" with your position...you sly old fox you! ;][/b]
Between the two beliefs both cause people to view everything a certain way,
both cause people to behave or walk out their faith as well. Being mistaken
about some of our beliefs doesn't change that we act upon our beliefs at time
right or wrong, as in walking out our faith.
Kelly
13 May 11
3 edits
Originally posted by KellyJayMy argument is that "faith" is a special case of belief, they are not identical in meaning.
It is the same in my opinion, not trying to slip anything past you.
Between the two beliefs both cause people to view everything a certain way,
both cause people to behave or walk out their faith as well. Being mistaken
about some of our beliefs doesn't change that we act upon our beliefs at time
right or wrong, as in walking out our faith.
Kelly
Returning to my prime number example if you merely looked at 171,727,482,883 and convinced yourself it was prime purely on the strength that your gut feeling compels you towards that position then such a belief is faith.
On the other hand, consider the following:
13 is prime
23 is prime
33 is not prime
43 is prime
53 is prime
63 is not prime
73 is prime
83 is prime
93 is not prime
103 is prime
113 is prime
123 is not prime
'
'
'
and so on
It looks like there is a pattern, indeed if any integer X with more than one digit ending in a 3 is such that X-3 is not divisible by 3 then one might assert X is almost surely prime. Now presenting a few cases to prove a general rule would be a fallacious argument to me,
I purposely stopped at 123 - why? ;]
but to the layperson it could easily be compelling enough that they have valid reason to believe 171,727,482,883 is prime simply by checking 171,727,482,880 is not divisible by 3.
----------------
That's the difference between faith and belief. With faith you have insufficient support for a position that you hold is true. With belief do you have sufficient support for it (it may be erroneous support - but still enough)
13 May 11
Originally posted by AgergSounds also like the difference between hypothesis and theory.
My argument is that "faith" is a special case of belief, they are not identical in meaning.
Returning to my prime number example if you merely looked at 171,727,482,883 and convinced yourself it was prime purely on the strength that your gut feeling compels you towards that position then such a belief is faith.
On the other hand, consider the following: ...[text shortened]... ief do you have sufficient support for it (it may be erroneous support - but still enough)
13 May 11
Originally posted by DowardAs I've said before on here, we need to strike a balance. Between left and right brain, between faith and reason, intuition and logic, etc.
faith in itself is blind. It is the knowing in your "heart" against any evidence.
However you go about integrating these polar opposites is up to the individual, but, imo, it is a necessary step to "move forward" with our spiritual understanding(s).
14 May 11
1 edit
Originally posted by josephwWhile I do not necessarily disagree with your post I would just like to say that it is hard to measure how "little used" faith is, as faith is an internal "action" which is not always evident to others.
Hebrews 11:6a - But without faith it is impossible to please him:
Faith always has an object. How can faith be blind if it has an object? Faith is a little understood concept, and sadly, little used.
Colossians 2:6 - As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
How do we receive Christ? By faith. So is the walk. It is not blind!
(Although there are instances where an act can be traced back to one's faith)
I do find your posts negative, (unless you are rubbing up with other christians or christian ideals). A psycologist may even say that your need to attack athiests for their lack of belief (or whatever), is a defence mechanism against their often rational, well thought out arguements.