Belief vs. faith

Originally posted by Agerg
This response gives rise to an obvious ad-hom; I shall resist the temptation ;]

A wise choice I think.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I believe in the force of gravity and I have faith that it will work.
So I will not jump off a tall building to prove it because I believe
I will get hurt. If I did not believe or lacked faith, I might try it.

The Newtonian theory of gravitation is replaced by relativity theory which says that two objects attract each other because they form depressions in space time just like 2 lead balls may form it in a vase full of jelly. Even this is no longer thought to be valid.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
The Newtonian theory of gravitation is replaced by relativity theory which says that two objects attract each other because they form depressions in space time just like 2 lead balls may form it in a vase full of jelly. Even this is no longer thought to be valid.

Maybe one day we will all understand and know the truth.
But for now we can only discuss it and agree or disagree.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Maybe one day we will all understand and know the truth.
But for now we can only discuss it and agree or disagree.

My point was that Science is unable to explain what is Gravity even 350 years after Newton. That is why Science is a collection of successful recipes and nothing more than that.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
My point was that Science is unable to explain what is Gravity even 350 years after Newton. That is why Science is a collection of successful recipes and nothing more than that.

Science is man's attempt at explaining God's creations.
As you say, sometimes man comes up with a successful
recipe, but most of the time he fails. Of course, Thomas
Edison said that all his failed experiments were successful
in proving what did not work.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
My point was that Science is unable to explain what is Gravity even 350 years after Newton. That is why Science is a collection of successful recipes and nothing more than that.

There isn't anything more than that. You seem to imply that there is, but don't seem ready to say what.

Originally posted by twhitehead
There isn't anything more than that. You seem to imply that there is, but don't seem ready to say what.

I am not implying anything. I say,once again, that Science,although a very powerful tool,has its limitations and is a success within the bounds of these limitations or confines.It is a successful recipe set within these confines.
Science relies on observations, logic, experimentation. All very good in describing "how "of all observable phenomena but not EXPLAINING the "why" of phenomena. The MODELLING that science does of the phenomenon under its examination is WORKABLE BUT APPROXIMATE . The observer also affects the observed phenomenon.To give a crude example,you insert an ammeter in an electrical set up to measure the value of current but that value is already affected by the electrical energy eaten up by the ammeter. Scientific process is always a work in progress and when Science succeeds in dealing with a set of issues,a fresh set of issues arise,as very rightly said by Zenarctic.
So Science cannot successfully deal with many important issues facing Mankind from times immemorial.To deal with such issues,Faith is required.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Science is man's attempt at explaining God's creations.
As you say, sometimes man comes up with a successful
recipe, but most of the time he fails. Of course, Thomas
Edison said that all his failed experiments were successful
in proving what did not work.

Please see my reply to twhitehead below.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
Please see my reply to twhitehead below.

Atheist try to use science in an attempt to prove God is not needed.
They see themselves as wise. But they have an incomplete knowledge
of science, just like the rest of us. So how can they say, truthfully,
that there is no God. How can you put your faith into something you
do not believe in. Sometimes they are honest enough to say they do
not know, so they refuse to believe in something they don't know. But
isn't it easy to have faith in something you know? With God you must
believe He exist in order for you to put your faith in Him.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Atheist try to use science in an attempt to prove God is not needed.
They see themselves as wise. But they have an incomplete knowledge
of science, just like the rest of us. So how can they say, truthfully,
that there is no God. How can you put your faith into something you
do not believe in. Sometimes they are honest enough to say they do
not know ...[text shortened]... hing you know? With God you must
believe He exist in order for you to put your faith in Him.

What a load of 'strawman' nonsense. It appears like most other theists on this board you have no idea what an atheist thinks.

No atheist will say 'truthfully, that there is no God'. This is just preposterous nonsense and once again you display your ignorance on this topic.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
What a load of 'strawman' nonsense. It appears like most other theists on this board you have no idea what an atheist thinks.

No atheist will say 'truthfully, that there is no God'. This is just preposterous nonsense and once again you display your ignorance on this topic.

So they are "lying" when you say there is no God. I am
glad you made that clear to all of us. Thanks.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
I am not implying anything.

Actually you are. You are implying that a why does exist.
I claim that there is no why - and that is the only reason why science cannot answer the question.

I say,once again, that Science,although a very powerful tool,has its limitations and is a success within the bounds of these limitations or confines.
And I say there are no such boundaries. Science cannot explain the why solely because there is no why.

To deal with such issues,Faith is required.
Faith does not 'deal with such issues' it avoids them.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Actually you are. You are implying that a why does exist.
I claim that there is no why - and that is the only reason why science cannot answer the question.

[b]I say,once again, that Science,although a very powerful tool,has its limitations and is a success within the bounds of these limitations or confines.
And I say there are no such boundaries ...[text shortened]... ith such issues,Faith is required.[/b]
Faith does not 'deal with such issues' it avoids them.[/b]

Science is incomplete then in meeting our needs. But the
Holy Bible explains why.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Science is incomplete then in meeting our needs. But the
Holy Bible explains why.

No, the Bible does not explain why. It merely makes it look like it has answered the why. It essentially does the same as science in that it explains a phenomena as being a result of another phenomena. At no point does it follow the chain of cause effect to its origin and give an ultimate 'why' answer. There is no such answer, and cannot be such an answer.

Originally posted by RJHinds
So they are "lying" when you say there is no God. I am
glad you made that clear to all of us. Thanks.

Do i believe there is a God? Answer - No.

Do i 'know' there isn't a God? Answer - No.

Am i telling the truth with regard to the above statements? Answer - Yes.

I can put it any clearer than that for you.