Believers, Non-Believers & Morality

Originally posted by @fmf
Are Christians required to make any efforts to measure up as best you can?

We’ve had this discussion before (for hours) and you even provided a link to the discussion the last time you tried to have the same discussion again.

Why do you want to repeat it?

Originally posted by @romans1009
We’ve had this discussion before (for hours) and you even provided a link to the discussion the last time you tried to have the same discussion again.

Why do you want to repeat it?

Because the most recent time we discussed it you slipped up and contradicted yourself and then clammed up. I thought you might want to finesse your position once again. I'd say in my six decades, 90% of the Christians I have had theological talks with or whom I have heard preach believe that Christians are required to follow Jesus' commands and are required to make efforts to measure up to what they see as being "God's standards" as best they can. To me. Required. They must actively do it. They cannot wait for some magical/supernatural process to do it to them. They have to make the effort. Every day of their lives. You are an ideological oddity.

Originally posted by @fmf
Because the most recent time we discussed it you slipped up and contradicted yourself and then clammed up. I thought you might want to finesse your position once again. I'd say in my six decades, 90% of the Christians I have had theological talks with or whom I have heard preach believe that Christians are required to follow Jesus' commands and required to make ...[text shortened]... what they see as being "God's standards" as best you can. To me. you are an ideological oddity.

Required toward what end? Salvation? Something else?

I’ve not changed positions at all. Salvation is by faith alone. When someone believes in Jesus Christ and His Resurrection and accepts Him into his or her heart, God’s Holy Spirit indwells them, makes them righteous (in right standing with God) and changes their heart so they sin less and do more good works. I’ve probably written that hundreds of times in here.

The stronger the Holy Spirit’s influence is on one’s life (and His influence can be strengthened through Bible reading and prayer,) the better the person will be.

Originally posted by @romans1009
The stronger the Holy Spirit’s influence is on one’s life (and His influence can be strengthened through Bible reading and prayer,) the better the person will be.

Are we able to gauge how strong "the Holy Spirit’s influence" is on your life from the way you conduct yourself here in this community?

Originally posted by @romans1009
When someone believes in Jesus Christ and His Resurrection and accepts Him into his or her heart, God’s Holy Spirit indwells them, makes them righteous (in right standing with God) and changes their heart so they sin less and do more good works. I’ve probably written that hundreds of times in here.

Yes. You make this claim maybe multiple times every day. It is the centrepiece of your posting. I interpret it as a claim about yourself as well. Does it apply to you? Do you manifest this influence? Can other members of the community witness it when you interact with people here?

Originally posted by @fmf
You can call me whatever you want. I have called you a liar, so you should call it how you see it.

I have no idea what you are like away from here. Presumably what I see here is only your online dishinibition syndrome operating. I see no reason to call you a lying, thieving, adulterous blasphemer.

If your religious beliefs cause you to look at me and y ...[text shortened]... "God's standards". There is just your highly convoluted sanctimoniousness and moral confusion.

Whether or not you believe God's standards exist is neither here nor there. You were a Christian for many decades and therefore know exactly what I mean when I talk about God's standards. This is the question that you have dodged: When measured against God's standards, do you believe you are a good person or not? It's a simple straight forward question. The fact that you continue to dodge it speaks volumes about your honesty.

Originally posted by @fmf
Are we able to gauge how strong "the Holy Spirit’s influence" is on your life from the way you conduct yourself here in this community?

Asked more than once and answered more than once.

Originally posted by @fmf
Yes. You make this claim maybe multiple times every day. It is the centrepiece of your posting. I interpret it as a claim about yourself as well. Does it apply to you? Do you manifest this influence? Can other members of the community witness it when you interact with people here?

Asked before and answered before.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
When measured against God's standards, do you believe you are a good person or not?

There aren't any "God's standards". Please read what I am writing. Read it. Process it. Allow it to affect your side of the conversation otherwise the conversation is like a parody.

Do I measure up against your subjective and, I'd say, superstition-based moral standards? That's a matter for you.

But these "God's standards" you refer to [when you are in fact referring to your own subjective perspectives and opinions], I do not think they exist.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
It's a simple straight forward question. The fact that you continue to dodge it speaks volumes about your honesty.

Yes, it is a simple straightforward question. And, no, I am not dodging it. In fact, I have given you my simple and straightforward answer. Please read what I am writing. Please read what I am posting. Please take on board the answers I am willingly giving you to your questions.

Originally posted by @fmf
There aren't any "God's standards". Please read what I am writing. Read it process it. Allow it to affect your side of the conversation other the conversation is like a parody. Do I measure against your subjective and, I'd say, superstitious moral standards? That's a matter for you. But these "God's standards" you refer to [when you are in fact referring to your own subjective perspectives and opinions], I do not think they exist.

Assuming they did exist how would you measure up? It's interesting that you refuse to answer such a straightforward question. I guess that is an answer in itself.

Originally posted by @fmf
There aren't any "God's standards". Please read what I am writing. Read it process it. Allow it to affect your side of the conversation other the conversation is like a parody. Do I measure against your subjective and, I'd say, superstitious moral standards? That's a matter for you. But these "God's standards" you refer to [when you are in fact referring to your own subjective perspectives and opinions], I do not think they exist.

Substitute “moral perfection” for God.

Do you think you measure up to the standard of moral perfection?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Assuming they did exist how would you measure up? It's interesting that you refuse to answer such a straightforward question. I guess that is an answer in itself.

I don't assume they exist.

You have already received a straightforward answer to your straightforward question. Engage it. Don't pretend.

Originally posted by @romans1009
Substitute “moral perfection” for God.

Do you think you measure up to the standard of moral perfection?

"Moral perfection" does not exist.

Originally posted by @fmf
"Moral perfection" does not exist.

Oh He exists all right. And your face upon learning that would be priceless lol