Believers, Non-Believers & Morality

Originally posted by @romans1009
God does not leave or abandon His children.

“Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.”

(Hebrews 13:5-6)

God does not exist. That is the reality.

The second you realize that your lack of moral fortitude will become dreadfully apparent. Currently, you are swimming with armbands. Without them, you will sink like a stone.

Originally posted by @romans1009
If morality developed through an evolutionary process, why did the altruism develop?

I believe I have addressed this already. I think I used the world "philanthropy" as a proxy for "altruism".

Altruism can be a form of deferred or indirect self-interest.

I also think that altruism is more of a question of character rather than moral in and of itself.

Altruistic acts could also be to the detriment of others and so could sometimes be morally unsound.

Furthermore, someone might get satisfaction out of engaging in altruistic acts.

You've returned repeatedly to the word "altruism". I'm not sure why. It's nebulous. You think it's some kind of clincher in the face of what I've been saying?

Like I said, different strokes for different folks.

Political processes can turn compassion into an ideology that appeals to people. Religious institutions can do that too.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
God does not exist. That is the reality.

The second you realize that your lack of moral fortitude will become dreadfully apparent. Currently, you are swimming with armbands. Without them, you will sink like a stone.

Well you’re obviously wrong, but, more to the point, did you try to present a Christian’s position and belief system while ignoring said position and belief system, or did you not know a major tenet of the Christian faith?

Originally posted by @romans1009
Were you trying to present a Christian’s position and beliefs while at the same time dismissing a Christian’s position and beliefs?

Either you were doing that or you didn’t know a major tenet of the Christian faith.

I post as an atheist. Wise up.

Originally posted by @fmf
I believe I have addressed this already. I think I used the world "philanthropy" as a proxy for "altruism".

Altruism can be a form of deferred or indirect self-interest.

I also think that altruism is more of a question of character rather than moral in and of itself.

Altruistic acts could also be to the detriment of others and so could sometimes be ...[text shortened]... turn compassion into an ideology that appeals to people. Religious institutions can do that too.

Here is the definition of altruism:

“The belief in or practice of disinterested and selfless concern for the well-being of others.”

Altruism is quite different from philanthropy.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
I post as an atheist. Wise up.

Then why were you trying to present a Christian’s position and belief system?

You were caught with your knickers down in not knowing a major tenet of the Christian faith and now you’re flopping around like a fish trying to get out of it.

Originally posted by @romans1009
Well you’re obviously wrong, but, more to the point, did you try to present a Christian’s position and belief system while ignoring said position and belief system, or did you not know a major tenet of the Christian faith?

I'm perfectly aware of the Christian position.

I reject it. I'm an atheist. I speak as an atheist, I view the Christian position through atheist eyes.

Obviously. 🙄

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
I'm perfectly aware of the Christian position.

I reject it. I'm an atheist. I speak as an atheist, I view the Christian position through atheist eyes.

Obviously. 🙄

Keep on flopping, Heartpence.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
I'm perfectly aware of the Christian position.

I reject it. I'm an atheist. I speak as an atheist, I view the Christian position through atheist eyes.

Obviously. 🙄

Get FMF back to speak for you. Your flipping and flopping around as you try to square a circle is embarrassing.

Originally posted by @romans1009
Here is the definition of altruism:

“The belief in or practice of disinterested and selfless concern for the well-being of others.”

Altruism is quite different from philanthropy.

I still don't get why you keep mentioning it. I have mentioned various ideas about altruism and haven't engaged any of them. In so far as altruism and philanthropy are morally sound and the impact they have, clearly they are very similar and overlap a lot.

Originally posted by @romans1009 to Ghost of a Duke
Get FMF back to speak for you. Your flipping and flopping around as you try to square a circle is embarrassing.

He's arguably expressing it better than I did. You simply tripped over yourself.

Originally posted by @fmf
I still don't get why you keep mentioning it. I have mentioned various ideas about altruism and haven't engaged any of them. In so far as altruism and philanthropy are morally sound and the impact they have, clearly they are very similar and overlap a lot.

Leave that aside for a moment. Ghost needs your help. He’s tangled himself into a pretzel with all the flopping around he’s doing and he needs someone to pull his knickers up.

Originally posted by @romans1009
Keep on flopping, Heartpence.

Resorting to childish posting doesn't win you the argument. Below is what I posted. Which part don't you understand and would like dumbed down?


'Who are you exactly to judge someone as morally bankrupt? I mean, seriously? - Whereas my morality is strong 'without' a moral lawgiver, yours apparently wouldn't exist without one. Whereas my morality is homegrown and self-driven, yours is so weak that it is entirely dependent on an outside agency.

My morality bank is filled with genuine currency, while yours is Just an IOU from a non-existent deity. - If it was proven tomorrow that God did not exist, I would remain a person of integrity and good morals, while you would feel at liberty to go out and rob a bank.'

Originally posted by @fmf
He's arguably expressing it better than I did. You simply tripped over yourself.

Yes, an atheist trying to present what a Christian believes while ignoring what a Christian believes because he’s an atheist makes perfect sense.

🙄

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Resorting to childish posting doesn't win you the argument. Below is what I posted. Which part don't you understand and would like dumbed down?


'Who are you exactly to judge someone as morally bankrupt? I mean, seriously? - Whereas my morality is strong 'without' a moral lawgiver, yours apparently wouldn't exist without one. Whereas my moralit ...[text shortened]... person of integrity and good morals, while you would feel at liberty to go out and rob a bank.'

What is the “outside agency” you’re referring to?