Bible Starting Points ?

Originally posted by divegeester
Yes, actually I would... I'd like to hear if I am precluded from being filled with the spirit of Christ if I reject the "wonderful" doctrine of the triune God?

I said the Triune God was Wondeful. And that is completely according to the Bible in (Isaiah 9:6)

" For a child is born to us, A son is given to us;

And the government shall is upon His shoulder;

And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace, ... etc."

Now the doctrine properly taught may be wonderful. But I said the Triune God Himself was Wonderful. And that is according to the prophecy.

You don't see a hint of the three-one God there?
You don't see at least a dual - une God there ?

The Mighty God is a child being formed in the womb of a human woman for nine months. Yet the universe is still being upheld, maintained, operational, and functioning by God.

isn't that a window into God being involved in TWO operations -
1.) Being a baby in a woman's womb
2.) Being the Mighty Upholder and Sustainer of the rest of creation.

Then we have a SON given Who is the Eternal Father.

An "Eternal Father" does not cease but continues on eternally without cessation.
Yet while He continues uninterrupted and eternally He is also a Son GIVEN.

The Triune God is indeed Wonderful.

Nice try. But this passage doesn't say "A doctrine is Given to us".
Nor does it say "A perplexing Dogma is given to us".

It says a Wonderful child is born to us and a Wonderful Son is given to us.
The Triune God is Wonderful, whatever way you would like to describe the doctrine of the Trinity.

I know people who seem to be saved who argue about the Trinity.
Matthew 13 warns me that some theologically talking people will talk up a good game.

So as you know, I refrain from declaring that I KNOW in a Yes or No fashion that which Jesus Christ has taught me that sometimes I will NOT know. The angels at the consummation of the age will KNOW and discriminate is cases in which Jesus warned me I CANNOT tell "Yes" or "No" this person is a Christian brother.

As for being filled with the Spirit. I am going to assume that for you being filled with the Spirit is not the same thing necessarily as having the Spirit as in belonging to Christ.

Concering that, I have never met ANYONE "Filled with the Spirit" who did not know how to deny himself. And one of the ways we Christians must deny ourselves is to deny trust in our own limited abilities to understand God or His ways.

Proud people who will not deny themselves and say "Amen" to the word of God even though something revealed there is mighty perplexing, I have never yet known to be so "filled" with the Spirit of Christ, though they may be Christian brothers.

What they may be "filled" with is self trust, self reliance, and SELF generally.
To be filled in personality with the Spirit of Christ is a matter of transformation.
And transformation never seems to take place where one is not willing to deny himself and live by Christ.

I do not consider myself to be FILLED with the Spirit of Christ.
I suspect that you are not FILLED with the Spirit of Christ though you may be a possessor of Christ.

======================================================

1.) Was Jesus just meditating in the Garden of Gethsemane ?

2.) Why do you not like to capitalize Spirit but rather make it a small s ?

Do you not believe that the eternal Spirit is God Himself ? (Heb. 9:14)

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Ah okay. Have discussed my Theology degree a couple of times and thought you were part of that discussion. (Gave Suzianne a list of the 30 modules my course covered. - Not all of course were in relation to the bible). Going back 20 years though.

Very difficult to view the bible as a whole when you've studied the individual books and understand th ...[text shortened]... lity of authors etc.

Currently dabbling with children's fiction. (When the insomnia permits).

What thread was this in? I haven't seen it.

I suppose when you examine the bare bones of the texts and supposed authors and the associated timelines in a scientific mind frame (with or without evidence), it becomes easier to blow it all off as fiction.

Originally posted by divegeester
And yet you have started 4 or 5 threads on this same topic of the trinity, post multiple lengthy convoluted and sometimes incomprehensible posts with each of the threads and refuse point blank to answer questions.

Perhaps one might look at your questions (or rather one question, as it's always the same one, regardless of thread) with more sincerity and answer with some alacrity if only your question wasn't so incredibly self-serving.

"post multiple lengthy convoluted and sometimes incomprehensible posts with each of the threads"
God forbid you actually devote time to find out what is actually being said before you immediately and constantly jump in with the only question you ever ask. "That's all great, and while I don't have time to actually digest your post, all I want to know is how does this affect ME?" Never mind that the post is rarely about you, you always make it about you, and then go pout when he doesn't feel the need to immediately feed your ego.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Perhaps one might look at your questions (or rather one question, as it's always the same one, regardless of thread) with more sincerity and answer with some alacrity if only your question wasn't so incredibly self-serving.

[b]"post multiple lengthy convoluted and sometimes incomprehensible posts with each of the threads"
God forbid you actually dev ...[text shortened]... make it about you, and then go pout when he doesn't feel the need to immediately feed your ego.[/b]

My I assured question is not about further exegesis into the godhead. Can I ask you the question Suzianne, perhaps you will answer...

If a person rejects the doctrine of the trinity, does this preclude then from being filled with the spirit of Christ, and therefore (according to sonship's interpretation), also from eternal life?

Originally posted by sonship
I think God wants me to stop talking about other things of comparitive irrelevance.

Interesting; so you have heard directly from God that you must speak less of these comparatively irrelevant things and speak more about the trinity doctrine?

As the trinity doctrine is the most relevant thing you can talk about, according to God, then what are the consequences of someone (like me for example) in rejecting it? I mean if it is the most relevant thing god wants you to talk about and I reject it, surely that must have consequences.

Surely God will have provided you with a response to this question?

Originally posted by Suzianne
What thread was this in? I haven't seen it.

I suppose when you examine the bare bones of the texts and supposed authors and the associated timelines in a scientific mind frame (with or without evidence), it becomes easier to blow it all off as fiction.

Blimey. Was 6 months ago (or more) but surprised you have already forgotten. I had to go and dig out my old certificates. 🙁

I forget myself the comments you made, but you did have some opinions on the modules my course covered.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke to Suzianne
Blimey. Was 6 months ago (or more) but surprised you have already forgotten. I had to go and dig out my old certificates. 🙁

Being aware or what people have said or what is actually going on in conversations here is not Suzianne's strong suit. For example, she asked me numerous times to state what my beliefs were with regard to God and she just blanked out my direct responses - addressed to her - and then later would claim that I'd refused to tell her.

She may be pretending not to recall what you told her - and indeed everybody - about your background in theology by way of some kind of peculiar gesture of loyalty to the somewhat beleaguered sonship - who doesn't always remember what he himself has said. 😉

Originally posted by Suzianne
Perhaps one might look at your questions (or rather one question, as it's always the same one, regardless of thread) with more sincerity and answer with some alacrity if only your question wasn't so incredibly self-serving.

[b]"post multiple lengthy convoluted and sometimes incomprehensible posts with each of the threads"
God forbid you actually dev ...[text shortened]... make it about you, and then go pout when he doesn't feel the need to immediately feed your ego.[/b]

He seems obsessed. I have never in my life seen a man so obsessed with challenging someone about his personal salvation. I know orthodox Jews who would eventually shrug off a Christian with a "who cares what you think."

If I had the assurance that I knew the Lord as my Savior, it wouldn't matter that much whether someone else gave me the nod to that or not.

I am not sure what this obsession means to divegeester. i think it is perhaps fueled by an agenda that a Christian must not speak about the Triune God - period.

Notice how many times he mentions "doctrine" in his future repetitions of his question.
It reminds me of Captain Ahab and Moby Dick.

Can't you see obsessed Ahab, strapped to the white whale, hysterically thrusting his spear again and again into his hated offending beast, shouting - "Oh ye dammit doctrine!! I spend my last breath on ye !!"

The man is obsessed it appears. I wonder if Saul of Tarsus had this kind of spirit when he was dragging the callers on Jesus from the houses.

Originally posted by sonship
He seems obsessed. I have never in my life seen a man so obsessed with challenging someone about his personal salvation. I know orthodox Jews who would eventually shrug off a Christian with a "who cares what you think."

If I had the assurance that I knew the Lord as my Savior, it wouldn't matter that much whether someone else gave me the nod to ...[text shortened]... aul of Tarsus had this kind of spirit when he was dragging the callers on Jesus from the houses.

I think you pretending you don't understand my motivation for asking you a repeated question is frankly a blatant lie sonship. I've explained to you why my question is important several times.

Originally posted by divegeester
I think you pretending you don't understand my motivation for asking you a repeated question is frankly a blatant lie sonship. I've explained to you why my question is important several times.

You're obsessed ?
You're not obsessed ?

I don't know. And I am not remaining here for the rest of my life contemplating it.
But you do sound like you're obsessed.

Now if you don't want to explain why Deut. 6:4 is the one and only starting place in any contemplation of the nature of God, then let me see what others contribute.

Originally posted by divegeester
Interesting; so you have heard directly from God that you must speak less of these comparatively irrelevant things and speak more about the trinity doctrine?

As the trinity doctrine is the most relevant thing you can talk about, according to God, then what are the consequences of someone (like me for example) in rejecting it? I mean if it is the most ...[text shortened]... must have consequences.

Surely God will have provided you with a response to this question?

Bump for sonship

Originally posted by sonship
You're obsessed ?
You're not obsessed ?

The word "obsessed" appears 8-10 times in your last two posts. Seeking to taint/deflect dissent by attributing it to some supposed personal weakness - obsession, emotionalism, anger etc. - as you so often do, is not you at your best. sonship.

Originally posted by divegeester
Bump for sonship

Now you're acting like a lifeless robot.
Better check the consequences of denying the Triune God.

"If you can't refute em, try annoying em to death!"

Originally posted by sonship
Now you're acting like a lifeless robot.
Better check the consequences of denying the Triune God.

"If you can't refute em, try annoying em to death!"

What are the consequences of denying the Tri ... whatever God?

Its not in the Bible so maybe you can list out these consequences.

Originally posted by Rajk999
What are the consequences of denying the Tri ... whatever God?

Its not in the Bible so maybe you can list out these consequences.

You too ?

Well, I would miss out on much joy if I fought against the revelation that God is the Father - the Son -and the Holy Spirit.

I would probably think the Son as not really praying in the garden for my soul but only meditating. As it stands my heart is moved much more to know the Son of God was praying to His Father God - agonizing for my salvation.

You know the man - finite and in time, was also the eternal God transcendent to time. As such His work was universal and personal.
God as a man can do this.

Paul says "He loved me and gave Himself up for me."

I believe because God is the petitioning Son and the petitioned Father the Triune God operated for my salvation.

I think my heart would grow cold to think of Christ's prayer for the saving of sinners at the obedience to the Father's will to be just contemplation or meditation on the matter.

Do you believe He who is to be called Eternal Father as the given "Son" (Isaiah 9:6), agonized in agonized on behalf of your soul in that garden ?

Or do you too, for the sake of "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is one" suppress the revelation of God the Son incarnate on earth petitioning God the Father in Heaven to obey to the uttermost that you might be saved ?