04 Nov 05
Originally posted by HalitoseIf it is the case that Natural Law theory is true, and if it is the case that we come pre-programmed for an appreciation of the natural law, then there would be no need for a moral education at all. The role of parents in the moral upbringing of their children would be superfluous. I'm not sure if this answers your question.
Its the same where I come from.... I was presuming it from the perspective of being God-programmed.
04 Nov 05
Originally posted by bbarrI don't think Natural Law theory requires that we have an innate programming which renders social interactions superfluous in understanding the Natural Law. Rather, such social interactions are an integral part of our being as a social animal. And since the maintainence of human social organizations (which are essential to human survival in toto) is based on empathic, as well as as self-preservation, considerations the basic Natural Law exists as part of us.
If it is the case that Natural Law theory is true, and if it is the case that we come pre-programmed for an appreciation of the natural law, then there would be no need for a moral education at all. The role of parents in the moral upbringing of their children would be superfluous. I'm not sure if this answers your question.
04 Nov 05
Originally posted by MaustrauserIf someone recovers from incurable cancer then its merely a case of misdiagnosis. If the bus driver is unbelievably old with the whole long beardy thing then it could well be gods fault. (Does god have a PSV license?) If the person who recovers from incurable cancer is struck dead by a bus as they leave the clinic we'll never know whether it was truly cured as he might have died next week. If god was driving the bus then he's a nasty peice of work. If god was cured of incurable cancer and then stepped under a tsunami he might be said to move in mysterious waves.
Explain why when a person recovers from incurable cancer it is a 'miracle' and God is to be praised for the cure, yet when a person gets hit by a bus, God is not blamed? (3 points)
Explain why after massive natural disasters people pray for the victims, expecting God to show compassion when clearly God caused the disaster in the first place? (3 points)
If your house starts to fall down then you get the builder back in to fix the fault. Clearly there is an analagous situation if you think god created the world (with a flaw that allowed the disaster) then you get god back in to make good for his poor workmanship. This is clearly stupid. When a builder messed up work on my house I got him back in to repair the damage. He did a just about satisfactory job. There are starting to be problemds with the house. I was clearly stupid. I shold have got anther buider to do the repairs and sued the pants off builder 1. Similarly with god. He's had a lot of chances to stop these major calamities like earthquakes, tsunamis, famine stc and failed to put them right. I have no faith in builder 1, why the hell do you have faith in god?
04 Nov 05
Originally posted by aardvarkhomeDo I get my six points?
If someone recovers from incurable cancer then its merely a case of misdiagnosis. If the bus driver is unbelievably old with the whole long beardy thing then it could well be gods fault. (Does god have a PSV license?) If the person who recovers from incurable cancer is struck dead by a bus as they leave the clinic we'll never know whether it was truly ...[text shortened]... d failed to put them right. I have no faith in builder 1, why the hell do you have faith in god?
Hi Maustrouser, long time no see. How are the chooks?
05 Nov 05
Originally posted by VivaldiYeah and I still do. Take the creator of the robot analogy:
God gave us free will, we take the piss and then blame him for the things that we (man) do 🙁
Say we create a robot that one out every 1000 of them will for sure murder a person although we also the remaining 999 will respond and behave perfectly. Do we not have an outrage against the robot's creator?
The Free Will arguement makes zero sense. So are you implying that free will cannot exist without the possibility of violence?
05 Nov 05
3 edits
I think the robot analogy doesn't quite work here - the creator, in this case, created everything - and he works from outside "the system".
Do we not have an outrage against the robot's creator?
It's quite presumptuous for a creation to question the creator.
The Free Will arguement makes zero sense.
The very possibility to realise that we may have a free will (when we're faced with a decision and can go either way) shows that it probably is true. If there was no light in the universe, we would have no concept of it and therefore darkness/light would have no meaning. When it comes to will, it's about the same...
05 Nov 05
Originally posted by aardvarkhomeI believe your missing the big picture. We’re here because we don’t know God. We’re not perfect. So therefore the meaning of life is to find God. You are not perfect and the builder is not perfect.
If someone recovers from incurable cancer then its merely a case of misdiagnosis. If the bus driver is unbelievably old with the whole long beardy thing then it could well be gods fault. (Does god have a PSV license?) If the person who recovers from incurable cancer is struck dead by a bus as they leave the clinic we'll never know whether it was truly ...[text shortened]... d failed to put them right. I have no faith in builder 1, why the hell do you have faith in god?
You’re analogy is flawed. The builder is not God. He may have wanted to do a good job, but was incapable.
Who’s to say that in the time of Adam and Eve the world wasn’t perfect? Perhaps it was.
This all starts to make more sense when you factor in God’s cause and effect relationship (reap what you sow). We error (the cause), and stuff happens (the effect).
05 Nov 05
2 edits
Originally posted by Joe FistSay we create a robot that one out every 1000 of them will for sure murder a person although we also the remaining 999 will respond and behave perfectly. Do we not have an outrage against the robot's creator?
Yeah and I still do. Take the creator of the robot analogy:
Say we create a robot that one out every 1000 of them will for sure murder a person although we also the remaining 999 will respond and behave perfectly. Do we not have an outrage against the robot's creator?
The Free Will arguement makes zero sense. So are you implying that free will cannot exist without the possibility of violence?
It’s because God didn’t want robots that he gave us free will. We are perfect as in our souls are perfect. We don’t realize this and so we sin. This is the process of going back to God, realizing the perfection within us.
Luke 17:21 "Neither shall they say, Lo here! Or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."
Col 1:27 "To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory."
The Free Will arguement makes zero sense. So are you implying that free will cannot exist without the possibility of violence?
It makes perfect sense if you consider what I said above. As long as we turn from God, there is violence.
07 Nov 05
Thank you Halitose for bumping your thread for me to review but I still maintain my position. If there is a God, I consider God then to be the inventor of mankind.
The inventor of most inventions does the best possible to achieve their desired results and if their desired results are not acheived, the inventor usually revamps or scraps their ideas until their desired results are achieved. Many times this takes many iterations.
If God is omnipotent, certainly He was able to create mankind with the capacity of free will without the capacity of violence. I personally believe there is an existence after our mortal life and perhaps we might have more enlightenment about our Inventor but I don't think God created any checks and balances system for good or bad people. I think "miracles" and "disasters" are of equal value and are random. Not mysterious. Not God's will. Just part of the human experiment
07 Nov 05
1 edit
Originally posted by Joe FistThe inventor of most inventions does the best possible to achieve their desired results and if their desired results are not achieved, the inventor usually revamps or scraps their ideas until their desired results are achieved. Many times this takes many iterations.
Thank you Halitose for bumping your thread for me to review but I still maintain my position. If there is a God, I consider God then to be the inventor of mankind.
The inventor of most inventions does the best possible to achieve their desired results and if their desired results are not acheived, the inventor usually revamps or scraps their ideas until ...[text shortened]... qual value and are random. Not mysterious. Not God's will. Just part of the human experiment
This is God’s plan. He is constantly revamping us until the desired results are achieved.
If God is omnipotent, certainly He was able to create mankind with the capacity of free will without the capacity of violence.
Violence is the result of evil, and we have no free will if we’re not free to choose evil.
Instead of turning to a forum for answers, why not pray and ask God?
07 Nov 05
Originally posted by The Chess ExpressThis is God’s plan. He is constantly revamping us until the desired results are achieved.
[b]The inventor of most inventions does the best possible to achieve their desired results and if their desired results are not achieved, the inventor usually revamps or scraps their ideas until their desired results are achieved. Many times this takes many iterations.
This is God’s plan. He is constantly revamping us until the desired resu ...[text shortened]... t free to choose evil.
Instead of turning to a forum for answers, why not pray and ask God?[/b]
With all due respect, I think God's plan leaves little to be desired and the constant revamping is extremely costly. Just look at any world news broadcast or, better yet, any local news broadcast of any major metropolitan city. It's too depressing. Why do some benefit tremedously from God's mysterious plan who obviously should not whereas others suffer miserable, unfortunate consequences?
Violence is the result of evil, and we have no free will if we’re not free to choose evil.
Then I am an advocate of God's intervention of stripping away mankind's free will to commit an act that would cause harm to another person. I think it's absurd to think that we cannot live a rich and rewarding life without some restrictions in that capacity.
Instead of turning to a forum for answers, why not pray and ask God?
I'm not interested in praying to God and I am not convinced God wants me to devote my life in servitude or praise to him. I'm looking for better answers than the mystical, mysterious, "God's plan" and "Faith" answers which seems to be the ultimate answer of some Christians without even accepting the possibility of anything else.