Biblical Authority

Originally posted by galveston75
Well I don't agree at all that all Christians have changed their view on these things in the Bible. If they are then they are changing many other things in the Bible as a consequence. If you water down the truths and facts in the Bible then one would be doing just as Satan did with Eve.

Are you suggesting that (my) doubting and investigating the scientific data in the Bible is the influence of a dark force?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
once one takes the position of the rationalist and denies the divine element all sorts of nonsense starts to creep in, therefore it is not so much that these 'views ' are not tenable, but that in trying to explain them from a human standpoint, one enters the folly of the rationalist. Correct and accurate Biblical knowledge can dismiss everyone of th ...[text shortened]... such, we come up with all sorts of irregularities, the like of which you have mentioned.

I am not suggesting that we should take the Bible literally at all. My point is that for a very long time Christians did take the texts literally because that was the way it was taught to them. The adjustment was a painful process even after science made it clear that many views were not tenable anymore. Look at the problem that Galileo Galilei had to face when he dared to contradict the religious view that the earth was the center of the universe. And more recent the resistance against the the scientific theory of evolution.

Originally posted by souverein
Are you suggesting that (my) doubting and investigating the scientific data in the Bible is the influence of a dark force?

I completey understand the Bible says to constantly test your faith with the scriptures. The reason for this is for the constant barage of false and pagan teachings that are in the world and are promoted by Satan, false religions, some sectors of the science community and ones who hate God, the Bible and all that they stand for.
So a spiritual person that does not fall into these catagories would have patiance on God to answer the questions that one may have on such matters and not go ahead of God and cause doubt in their hearts and minds and especially into others as that would be entering into an antichrist influance.

Originally posted by souverein
I am not suggesting that we should take the Bible literally at all. My point is that for a very long time Christians did take the texts literally because that was the way it was taught to them. The adjustment was a painful process even after science made it clear that many views were not tenable anymore. Look at the problem that Galileo Galilei had to face ...[text shortened]... of the universe. And more recent the resistance against the the scientific theory of evolution.

religious view is one thing, what the bible actually states quite another. As far as i am aware, there is no mention of the earth being the centre of the universe. therefore what one has is science stating what is not actually professed, by scripture. As soon as one makes the statement that one passage is allegorical because if professes to deny the divine, then you start to have problems, for it is a human interpretation of a divinely inspired text, and it has been my experience that it waters down the word, rather than upholds it, which is why, the churches in the west as are toothless lions, for they have embraced secular liberalism, denied the divine and have promoted human thinking rather than what the scriptures actually indicate, and i hold that it is folly! Evolution is hardly scientific, for it cannot be subject to the scientific model nor falsification, and i for one am really glad, that scientists of note such as Michael Denton and M.J. Behe are really starting to ask some serious questions of it, for i never really bought it in the first place.

If you want to believe that life arose as a purely chance occurrence, from non living matter, in some type of pre-biotic 'soup', then be my guest, but it takes a greater leap of faith to believe that, than it does in a beneficent creator! (and before the evolutionist get on their horses and start to drink their milk, we are perfectly aware that abiogenesis and the evolutionary hypothesis are categorised as different disciplines, but they share the same common denominator, which is in essence, a materialistic view of life)

Originally posted by galveston75
I completey understand the Bible says to constantly test your faith with the scriptures. The reason for this is for the constant barage of false and pagan teachings that are in the world and are promoted by Satan, false religions, some sectors of the science community and ones who hate God, the Bible and all that they stand for.
So a spiritual person t ...[text shortened]... rts and minds and especially into others as that would be entering into an antichrist influance.

This reasoning is circular.

Originally posted by souverein
I am not suggesting that we should take the Bible literally at all. My point is that for a very long time Christians did take the texts literally because that was the way it was taught to them. The adjustment was a painful process even after science made it clear that many views were not tenable anymore. Look at the problem that Galileo Galilei had to face ...[text shortened]... of the universe. And more recent the resistance against the the scientific theory of evolution.

Where exactly in the Bible does it say that the earth is the center of the universe? In fact, it does not. Where in the Bible does it say that evolutionary type patterns did not occur? In fact, it does not.

Of course, the obvious questions are about such things as the 6 day creation. A man by the name of Gerald Shroeder explored such seeming contradictions who took the written word literally. He wrote a book called Genesis and the big bang to try and come to terms with these issues. He was both part theologian, a Jew by the way, and part scientist. In the book, he used both his knowledge of science as well as his knowledge of Rabinnical writings and he came to the conclusion that the creation account in Genesis was simply not taken literally enough. So as not to appear that he was molding modern science and ancient theology, he used ancient rabbinical writings to back up the premise that others before the advent of modern science had come on the scene in large part agreed with many of modern science findings including the premise that the creation period was not 6 days as we know them today.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
religious view is one thing, what the bible actually states quite another. As far as i am aware, there is no mention of the earth being the centre of the universe. therefore what one has is science stating what is not actually professed, by scripture. As soon as one makes the statement that one passage is allegorical because if professes to deny t ...[text shortened]... but they share the same common denominator, which is in essence, a materialistic view of life)

Somebody on this forum wrote that Jesus came to fulfill the Law.
To me the most important, crucial and too often forgotten message of him was 'Love each other'. Isn't that the essential fulfillment of the Law?
All other texts become then tools to that goal and can be adjusted when time and place needs that.

Originally posted by whodey
Where exactly in the Bible does it say that the earth is the center of the universe? In fact, it does not. Where in the Bible does it say that evolutionary type patterns did not occur? In fact, it does not.

Of course, the obvious questions are about such things as the 6 day creation. A man by the name of Gerald Shroeder explored such seeming contradict ...[text shortened]... ce findings including the premise that the creation period was not 6 days as we know them today.

Thanks, I first will read a bit more about/from this Gerald Schroeder, although his theory sounds rather far fetched to me.

Originally posted by souverein
Somebody on this forum wrote that Jesus came to fulfill the Law.
To me the most important, crucial and too often forgotten message of him was 'Love each other'. Isn't that the essential fulfillment of the Law?
All other texts become then tools to that goal and can be adjusted when time and place needs that.

You forgot, "Love the Lord thy God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself."

Christ once said that if you loved him, you would obey him much like a husband trying to please his or her spouse. The question then becomes, what pleases him or displeases him? Since Christ was all about doing the Fathers business, that is what we should be doing and the Father has already spoken on many things that please him and displease him.

As for the underlying component of the law being love, you are correct. However, is sex equivalent to love? No it is not as in the case of a prostitute and her client. In addition, just because the two sexually consenting parties may love each other, does that make it "OK"? As in the example of an adultrous relationship, we can clearly see that it is not Ok because the interests of another is being violated. However, we often care little if God's interests are being violated when we engage sexual unions. An example of what I am talking about is the prohibition of Israelites mating with idol worshipers and becoming unequally yoked. As for the Christian, we have the same admonishments. This is because those "lost" souls will inevitably throw a wrench in our relationship with our Creator. Our love for God should superced all else. So lets suppose that God wants us to find a mate that is a different sex for his own purposes? Off the top of my mind, reproduction would be an obvious reason for this, but perhaps there are more? Should we not heed his admonishments and by faith do what he says to please him?

As for the law, you are right that the underlying component of the law is love. God's law was given in love to try and point us in the right way to go in life. We violate it at our own peril

Originally posted by souverein
Thanks, I first will read a bit more about/from this Gerald Schroeder, although his theory sounds rather far fetched to me.

Even though you may not agree with everything in the book, I think you will obtain a greater appreciation of theology. You see, we often scoff at things we have no working knowledge of. That is why it pains me to see scientists scoff at theology and theologians scoff at scientists. Schroeder is one of those rare souls that has an expertise in both, hence, he has a respect for both.

Of course, I am a Christian so its not like I can agree with him on everything either!!! 😀

Originally posted by souverein
This reasoning is circular.

In what way?

Originally posted by galveston75
In what way?

Because you try to escape logical reasoning by introducing Satan when critics bring in arguments against the authority of the Bible. But Satan itself is a concept created by the Bible and should be scrutinized before you can use it as an valid argument.

Originally posted by souverein
Because you try to escape logical reasoning by introducing Satan when critics bring in arguments against the authority of the Bible. But Satan itself is a concept created by the Bible and should be scrutinized before you can use it as an valid argument.

Well Satan has already won in his attempts to fool ones into thinking he does not exist as he's done with you. It's a very basic tacticle play that an enemy would take in a second to defeat an enemy in a war or with mind control.
I could give you many, many scriptures to show you how Satan uses this tactic as well as obvious others to push his control over the majority of mankind in all facits of life....but it seems it would do no good here, which is so sad. He's won with you it appears.
Not only do you not see the one who can destroy you, but you do not draw close to the one that can protect you.

Originally posted by galveston75
Satan has already won in his attempts to fool ones into thinking he does not exist as he's done with you.

Another (of the same type) circular argument. They are so amusing!

Another circular, of it's basic form, is the following:
"God exists because god exists."
Another one:
"The bible is the truth, because the bible tells us so."

Originally posted by killa rican
excuse the ''nome de internet'' it seems my name was taking so i use this one in fun...to play chess

then play a game🙄