Biblical Authority

Originally posted by daniel58
No God gave Adam the choice if He wanted to do penance fir his sins, God knows the future and sometimes tells some people who tell others, no they are not prophecies but the first is like saying "time will exist in the future" not a prophecy but something everybody knows is going to happen anyways, of course we don't know when the world will end, the second evel, that not everybody can know without God's Help, which of course is revealed by God.

Prophecies similar to this is oftenly used as a prophecy among other christians. Now you say that this was not a real prophecy. I'm not surprised.

Prophecy or not prophecy - god said to Adam, that if you eat of this fruit you will die. He didn't. Did god lie? Is god a liar? Can we ever rely on his truth from then on? God cheats in other places in the bible, som he is not a man of honour.

A prophecy is not a real prophecy if it turn out to be wrong. Ojly those who correctly can predict the future is treu prophecies. Is this a correct definition about a prophecy?

Or do you have a better definition about prophecies? You write: "what a prophecy is, is something that will happen in the future that will affect people on a spiritual level, that not everybody can know without God's Help, which of course is revealed by God." Can we go for this kind of definition? Can you give an example of an prophecy that this definition covers?

I say that prophecies doesn't work, more than any guessing about the future.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Prophecies similar to this is oftenly used as a prophecy among other christians. Now you say that this was not a real prophecy. I'm not surprised.

Prophecy or not prophecy - god said to Adam, that if you eat of this fruit you will die. He didn't. Did god lie? Is god a liar? Can we ever rely on his truth from then on? God cheats in other places in the b ...[text shortened]... on covers?

I say that prophecies doesn't work, more than any guessing about the future.

Prophecy; knowledge of the future (usually said to be obtained from a divine source)
a prediction uttered under divine inspiration

Unique among all books ever written, the Bible accurately foretells specific events-in detail-many years, sometimes centuries, before they occur. Approximately 2500 prophecies appear in the pages of the Bible, about 2000 of which already have been fulfilled to the letter—no errors. (The remaining 500 or so reach into the future and may be seen unfolding as days go by.) Since the probability for any one of these prophecies having been fulfilled by chance averages less than one in ten (figured very conservatively) and since the prophecies are for the most part independent of one another, the odds for all these prophecies having been fulfilled by chance without error is less than one in 102000 (that is 1 with 2000 zeros written after it)!

God is not the only one, however, who uses forecasts of future events to get people's attention. Satan does, too. Through clairvoyants (such as Jeanne Dixon and Edgar Cayce), mediums, spiritists, and others, come remarkable predictions, though rarely with more than about 60 percent accuracy, never with total accuracy. Messages from Satan, furthermore, fail to match the detail of Bible prophecies, nor do they include a call to repentance.

The acid test for identifying a prophet of God is recorded by Moses in Deuteronomy 18:21-22. According to this Bible passage (and others), God's prophets, as distinct from Satan's spokesmen, are 100 percent accurate in their predictions. There is no room for error.

As economy does not permit an explanation of all the Biblical prophecies that have been fulfilled, what follows in a discussion of a few that exemplify the high degree of specificity, the range of projection, and/or the "supernature" of the predicted events. Readers are encouraged to select others, as well, and to carefully examine their historicity.

(1) Some time before 500 B.C. the prophet Daniel proclaimed that Israel's long-awaited Messiah would begin his public ministry 483 years after the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem (Daniel 9:25-26). He further predicted that the Messiah would be "cut off," killed, and that this event would take place prior to a second destruction of Jerusalem. Abundant documentation shows that these prophecies were perfectly fulfilled in the life (and crucifixion) of Jesus Christ. The decree regarding the restoration of Jerusalem was issued by Persia's King Artaxerxes to the Hebrew priest Ezra in 458 B.C., 483 years later the ministry of Jesus Christ began in Galilee. (Remember that due to calendar changes, the date for the start of Christ's ministry is set by most historians at about 26 A.D. Also note that from 1 B.C. to 1 A.D. is just one year.) Jesus' crucifixion occurred only a few years later, and about four decades later, in 70 A.D. came the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 105.)*

(2) In approximately 700 B.C. the prophet Micah named the tiny village of Bethlehem as the birthplace of Israel's Messiah (Micah 5:2). The fulfillment of this prophecy in the birth of Christ is one of the most widely known and widely celebrated facts in history.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 105.)

(3) In the fifth century B.C. a prophet named Zechariah declared that the Messiah would be betrayed for the price of a slave—thirty pieces of silver, according to Jewish law-and also that this money would be used to buy a burial ground for Jerusalem's poor foreigners (Zechariah 11:12-13). Bible writers and secular historians both record thirty pieces of silver as the sum paid to Judas Iscariot for betraying Jesus, and they indicate that the money went to purchase a "potter's field," used—just as predicted—for the burial of poor aliens (Matthew 27:3-10).

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1011.)

(4) Some 400 years before crucifixion was invented, both Israel's King David and the prophet Zechariah described the Messiah's death in words that perfectly depict that mode of execution. Further, they said that the body would be pierced and that none of the bones would be broken, contrary to customary procedure in cases of crucifixion (Psalm 22 and 34:20; Zechariah 12:10). Again, historians and New Testament writers confirm the fulfillment: Jesus of Nazareth died on a Roman cross, and his extraordinarily quick death eliminated the need for the usual breaking of bones. A spear was thrust into his side to verify that he was, indeed, dead.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1013.)

(5) The prophet Isaiah foretold that a conqueror named Cyrus would destroy seemingly impregnable Babylon and subdue Egypt along with most of the rest of the known world. This same man, said Isaiah, would decide to let the Jewish exiles in his territory go free without any payment of ransom (Isaiah 44:28; 45:1; and 45:13). Isaiah made this prophecy 150 years before Cyrus was born, 180 years before Cyrus performed any of these feats (and he did, eventually, perform them all), and 80 years before the Jews were taken into exile.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1015.)

(6) Mighty Babylon, 196 miles square, was enclosed not only by a moat, but also by a double wall 330 feet high, each part 90 feet thick. It was said by unanimous popular opinion to be indestructible, yet two Bible prophets declared its doom. These prophets further claimed that the ruins would be avoided by travelers, that the city would never again be inhabited, and that its stones would not even be moved for use as building material (Isaiah 13:17-22 and Jeremiah 51:26, 43). Their description is, in fact, the well-documented history of the famous citadel.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 109.)

(7) The exact location and construction sequence of Jerusalem's nine suburbs was predicted by Jeremiah about 2600 years ago. He referred to the time of this building project as "the last days," that is, the time period of Israel's second rebirth as a nation in the land of Palestine (Jeremiah 31:38-40). This rebirth became history in 1948, and the construction of the nine suburbs has gone forward precisely in the locations and in the sequence predicted.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1018.)

(8) The prophet Moses foretold (with some additions by Jeremiah and Jesus) that the ancient Jewish nation would be conquered twice and that the people would be carried off as slaves each time, first by the Babylonians (for a period of 70 years), and then by a fourth world kingdom (which we know as Rome). The second conqueror, Moses said, would take the Jews captive to Egypt in ships, selling them or giving them away as slaves to all parts of the world. Both of these predictions were fulfilled to the letter, the first in 607 B.C. and the second in 70 A.D. God's spokesmen said, further, that the Jews would remain scattered throughout the entire world for many generations, but without becoming assimilated by the peoples or of other nations, and that the Jews would one day return to the land of Palestine to re-establish for a second time their nation (Deuteronomy 29; Isaiah 11:11-13; Jeremiah 25:11; Hosea 3:4-5 and Luke 21:23-24).

This prophetic statement sweeps across 3500 years of history to its complete fulfillment—in our lifetime.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 120.)

(9) Jeremiah predicted that despite its fertility and despite the accessibility of its water supply, the land of Edom (today a part of Jordan) would become a barren, uninhabited wasteland (Jeremiah 49:15-20; Ezekiel 25:12-14). His description accurately tells the history of that now bleak region.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 105.)

(10) Joshua prophesied that Jericho would be rebuilt by one man. He also said that the man's eldest son would die when the reconstruction began and that his youngest son would die when the work reached completion (Joshua 6:26). About five centuries later this prophecy found its fulfillment in the life and family of a man named Hiel (1 Kings 16:33-34).

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 107).

(11) The day of Elijah's supernatural departure from Earth was predicted unanimously—and accurately, according to the eye-witness account—by a group of fifty prophets (2 Kings 2:3-11).

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 109).

(12) Jahaziel prophesied that King Jehoshaphat and a tiny band of men would defeat an enormous, well-equipped, well-trained army without even having to fight. Just as predicted, the King and his troops stood looking on as their foes were supernaturally destroyed to the last man (2 Chronicles 20).

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 108).

(13) One prophet of God (unnamed, but probably Shemiah) said that a future king of Judah, named Josiah, would take the bones of all the occultic priests (priests of the "high places"😉 of Israel's King Jeroboam and burn them on Jeroboam's altar (1 Kings 13:2 and 2 Kings 23:15-18). This event occurred approximately 300 years after it was foretold.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1013).

Since these thirteen prophecies cover mostly separate and independent events, the probability of chance occurrence for all thirteen is about 1 in 10138 (138 equals the sum of all the exponents of 10 in the probability estimates above). For the sake of putting the figure into perspective, this probability can be compared to the statistical chance that the second law of thermodynamics will be reversed in a given situation (for example, that a gasoline engine will refrigerate itself during its combustion cycle or that heat will flow from a cold body to a hot body)—that chance = 1 in 1080. Stating it simply, based on these thirteen prophecies alone, the Bible record may be said to be vastly more reliable than the second law of thermodynamics. Each ...

Originally posted by daniel58
Prophecy; knowledge of the future (usually said to be obtained from a divine source)
a prediction uttered under divine inspiration

Unique among all books ever written, the Bible accurately foretells specific events-in detail-many years, sometimes centuries, before they occur. Approximately 2500 prophecies appear in the pages of the Bible, about 2000 of ...[text shortened]... astly more reliable than the second law of thermodynamics. Each ...

great post dan man!

Originally posted by daniel58
(7) The exact location and construction sequence of Jerusalem's nine suburbs was predicted by Jeremiah about 2600 years ago. He referred to the time of this building project as "the last days," that is, the time period of Israel's second rebirth as a nation in the land of Palestine (Jeremiah 31:38-40). This rebirth became history in 1948, and the constructi ...[text shortened]... cations and in the sequence predicted.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1018.)

I take one example, your #7, and ask you: How did you matematically calculate the probabiltiy to 1 in 1018? Did you invaent this number (1018) yourself? Or did god give it to you?

I would very much like to see the calculation so I don't have to laugh if you actually got it right...

As you have seen my counter example of prophecies *not* turn out to be right. Remember? I can repeat them if you like?

As the future never is known, scientifically unpossible, any prophecy is not better than any weather forecast, or election gallup, or the predicitons in the economic pages in the newspaper, or the stable tip in any horse racing. Nostradamus is as good as the bible, and of the same type too. One has to be religious to believe in them.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
I take one example, your #7, and ask you: How did you matematically calculate the probabiltiy to 1 in 1018? Did you invaent this number (1018) yourself? Or did god give it to you?

I would very much like to see the calculation so I don't have to laugh if you actually got it right...

As you have seen my counter example of prophecies *not* turn out to ...[text shortened]... is as good as the bible, and of the same type too. One has to be religious to believe in them.

I didn't I copy and pasted it, but he point is that things happen that people foretell that are 1. Basically against all odds, 2. People like you don't believe it before or after, 3. That there is no human way that they can foretell these things. I am Religious and I do Believe in them, unlike you.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
I take one example, your #7, and ask you: How did you matematically calculate the probabiltiy to 1 in 1018? Did you invaent this number (1018) yourself? Or did god give it to you?

Originally posted by daniel58
I didn't I copy and pasted it, but he point is that things happen that people foretell that are

So you paste and copy things that you don't believe in? Just trash? Just to have an answer, any answer, even answers that doesn't make sense?

Sometimes people belives in things that have numbers in it, because it looks so mathematic and scientific, so it has to be true.

If you paste and copy and you don't stand behind it, why do you paste it inthe first place? 'Just to impress that you've found the ctrl-c and ctrl-v keys?

Bad retorics, Daniel, bad retorics.

Bad as: "Foretelling doesn't work, because my teacher said that in my junior school." Would you like to have some copy and paste on that?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
So you paste and copy things that you don't believe in? Just trash? Just to have an answer, any answer, even answers that doesn't make sense?

Sometimes people belives in things that have numbers in it, because it looks so mathematic and scientific, so it has to be true.

If you paste and copy and you don't stand behind it, why do you paste it inthe f ...[text shortened]... cher said that in my junior school." Would you like to have some copy and paste on that?

No, No, No.

That doesn't mean it isn't true. Until you prove it wrong (which I don't think you can) I'll believe it.

I do, I do stand behind it. Besides I don't use all though keys for everything either, like my brother does he doesn't even like use the mouse.

Who cares what your teacher said? That doesn't have anything to do with foretelling, that doesn't mean she is for or against it, why don't you ask her, if she's for it then you'll have to believe in it, because you quoted her.

Originally posted by daniel58
No, No, No.

That doesn't mean it isn't true. Until you prove it wrong (which I don't think you can) I'll believe it.

I do, I do stand behind it. Besides I don't use all though keys for everything either, like my brother does he doesn't even like use the mouse.

Who cares what your teacher said? That doesn't have anything to do with foretelling, t ...[text shortened]... u ask her, if she's for it then you'll have to believe in it, because you quoted her.

You ask me to prove it wrong? Do you really have such a weak faith?
You give me a probability and you don't know how the number is calculated, and yet you're using it as an argument? And you want me to prove it wrong? That's what differs religion from science.

You comment what I write, but you don't care to read it first? Read the passage of the teacher again:

Bad retorics, Daniel, bad retorics.
Bad as: "Foretelling doesn't work, because my teacher said that in my junior school."

Did I mention my teacher anywhere? Read again. And again if necessary.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
You ask me to prove it wrong? Do you really have such a weak faith?
You give me a probability and you don't know how the number is calculated, and yet you're using it as an argument? And you want me to prove it wrong? That's what differs religion from science.

You comment what I write, but you don't care to read it first? Read the passage of the teach ...[text shortened]... school."[/quote]
Did I mention my teacher anywhere? Read again. And again if necessary.

Yes, No, that has nothing to do with weak Faith.

Yes, Yes.

Yes I did read it first.

I said "Who cares what your teacher said? That doesn't have anything to do with foretelling, that doesn't mean she is for or against it, why don't you ask her, if she's for it then you'll have to believe in it, because you quoted her."

Originally posted by daniel58
Yes, No, that has nothing to do with weak Faith.

Yes, Yes.

Yes I did read it first.

I said "Who cares what your teacher said? That doesn't have anything to do with foretelling, that doesn't mean she is for or against it, why don't you ask her, if she's for it then you'll have to believe in it, because you quoted her."

Okay, you read it, but you didn't understand it. You are of a habit to not reading your own links, not reading the posts you're answering, do you read anything at all?

Have you yet consulted the map confirming that Bagdad is in Asia? Have you?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Okay, you read it, but you didn't understand it. You are of a habit to not reading your own links, not reading the posts you're answering, do you read anything at all?

Have you yet consulted the map confirming that Bagdad is in Asia? Have you?

I'm sorry I thought it was somewhere else, I guess I wasn't thinking, anyways you just type things and never answers me all you say is "you don't read you posts or links or my posts, blah blah blah, but you don't even come up with a good argument because you don't even come up with one at all, you just avoid answering me because you know you're wrong.

Originally posted by daniel58
I guess I wasn't thinking

Right.