31 Jan 10
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneYes Christ words should supersede anything I say 🙂
"Shouldn't what Jesus taught supersede what you are saying?" Simple question.
And a relevant question at that.
Yet people try all manner of ways to avoid it: They ask me if I sin...They claim that they believe everything Jesus taught when their stated beliefs belie this, etc.
Earlier you said:
"Anyway I write all with respect to you not to be ...[text shortened]... he sake of it but to be challenged and to challenge back."
Consider yourself challenged.
So yes to that question.
Now back to my question also to be fair
Do you sin?
Manny
31 Jan 10
1 edit
Originally posted by menace71But they don't. Why don't they? Why don't you believe Jesus? It's evident from your stated beliefs that you don't. You've answered without answering.
Yes Christ words should supersede anything I say 🙂
So yes to that question.
Now back to my question also to be fair
Do you sin?
Manny
Your question isn't relevant. A relevant question would be whether or not I believe Jesus. The answer is, "Yes".
31 Jan 10
His true disciples would be set free from the slavery of committing sin.
I believe it to mean His true disciples would no longer practice sin. Seriously that is what I believe. However am I capable of sinning yes. Have I ever sinned after becoming a Christian? Yes indeed I have sinned in many ways. We however no longer have to live as slaves to sin as you have said and Christ has said.
Manny
31 Jan 10
1 edit
Originally posted by menace71Jesus said, "...everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin...". If you commit sin, you are a slave to sin. Jesus did not say "everyone who PRACTICES sin is the slave of sin". What do you mean by "practice sin"? At what point does sin become a "practice"? I sense that you are playing word games here.
His true disciples would be set free from the slavery of committing sin.
I believe it to mean His true disciples would no longer practice sin. Seriously that is what I believe. However am I capable of sinning yes. Have I ever sinned after becoming a Christian? Yes indeed I have sinned in many ways. We however no longer have to live as slaves to sin as you have said and Christ has said.
Manny
31 Jan 10
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneyou have been asked, this is now the second time, what is your understanding of sin? Let me put it directly, what is sin?
Jesus said, "...everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin...". If you commit sin, you are a slave to sin. Jesus did not say "everyone who PRACTICES sin is the slave of sin". What do you mean by "practice sin"? At what point does sin become a "practice"? I sense that you are playing word games here.
31 Jan 10
2 edits
Originally posted by ThinkOfOnei thought that it was perfectly obvious, for i have now asked you for the third time, what is your understanding of sin, you have ignored it once, evaded it the second time with the pretence that we share the same understanding, and now you insinuate that i am playing games???
Whatever I may think is or is not sin is irrelevant, isn't it?
Why this game? If you have a point to make, just make it.
Look anyone can quote scripture, but understanding is the prime thing to be aimed for, therefore if we are to understand the import of Christ words, we need to understand what sin is, i simply want to know what is your understanding of sin in this context It is not a game, it is not a trick question, it is a very simple and unambiguous question, i know what my understanding is, but i want to know what yours is. Its not a question of your opinion being irrelevant, for i want to know, in the context of Christs words, what you think his view of sin was, is that better?
31 Jan 10
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWell, look at it this way. Manny and I were having a discussion about Jesus and his view on "scripture". I made the following post:
i thought that it was perfectly obvious, for i have now asked you for the third time, what is your understanding of sin, you have ignored it once, evaded it the second time with the pretence that we share the same understanding, and now you insinuate that i am playing games???
Look anyone can quote scripture, but understanding is the prime thing ...[text shortened]... nt to know, in the context of Christs words, what you think his view of sin was, is that better?
Jesus taught that HIS WORDS that "are spirit and are life". Jesus did not view all scripture as having authority. Read the Sermon on the Mount. There's no reason to believe that Jesus would have viewed all of the New Testament as having authority either, especially the parts that contradict what He taught. For example, Jesus never taught that it is impossible for man to stop committing sin. In fact He explicitly states that those who continue in His word will be made free from the slavery of committing sin.
John 8:32-36
So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." They answered Him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, 'You will become free'?"
Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever. So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed."
Note that one must continue in HIS WORD.
The issue that others have with me is that they want to follow Paul's word (amongst others) instead of continuing in the words of Jesus. They don't want to enter the "narrow gate".
Out of left field you ask, "May we be permitted to ask, what is your understanding of sin?". No discussion, just a question which was irrelevant to the topic of discussion. So I ignored it. I made a later post and you asked the question again. Again with no discussion or anything that showed that you wanted to participate in the discussion.
So spare me all the malarkey about "ignoring", "evading", "pretense" and "insinuating".
In RC's world does everyone have to jump at your commands? If RC wants to know something, then everyone must make sure he's satisfied. How self-centered can you get?
If you want to participate in a discussion fine. State your opinions and we'll work you into the discussion.
31 Jan 10
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Originally posted by ThinkOfOneok, thank you for confirming what i suspected, you really dont know what it is, do you. You quote reams of Christ's words, stating sin is this and sinning is that, and everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin, and we must be perfect even as our heavenly father is perfect, and you have no real idea of what sin is. If that is not relevant then i am sorry, i really dont know what is, but what i do know, is that you dont know what sin is, otherwise you would not have taken the greatest possible pains to avoid telling us what your understand of sin, in the context of Christ's words really is. I wont term you dishonest, simply ignorant, its no big deal, we cannot know everything, can we.
Well, look at it this way. Manny and I were having a discussion about Jesus and his view on "scripture". I made the following post:
[quote]Jesus taught that HIS WORDS that "are spirit and are life". Jesus did not view all scripture as having authority. Read the Sermon on the Mount. There's no reason to believe that Jesus would have viewed all of the Ne fine. State your opinions and we'll work you into the discussion.
31 Jan 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWow. Did you even bother to read my post?
ok, thank you for confirming what i suspected, you really dont know what it is, do you. You quote reams of Christ's words, stating sin is this and sinning is that, and everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin, and we must be perfect even as our heavenly father is perfect, and you have no real idea of what sin is. If that is not relevant then i ...[text shortened]... wont term you dishonest, simply ignorant, its no big deal, we cannot know everything, can we.
You were out of line and continue to be out of line. If you weren't so self-centered, you'd realize this. The fact that you still can't come to this realization even after it is pointed out to you only shows how incredibly self-centered you are.
Also, it's remarkable how much you feel fit to fabricate so much baseless nonsense.
C'mon RC, get a hold of yourself.
31 Jan 10
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneyes thinkofone, i read it twice, you stated that my question was irrelevant, i demonstrated its relevance, but its no use, you do not know, therefore take this as an opportunity to go and do some research and learn what Christ meant when he referred to sin.
Wow. Did you even bother to read my post?
You were out of line and continue to be out of line. If you weren't so self-centered, you'd realize this. The fact that you still can't come to this realization even after it is pointed out to you only shows how incredibly self-centered you are.
Also, it's remarkable how much you feel fit to fabricate so much baseless nonsense.
C'mon RC, get a hold of yourself.
31 Jan 10
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No game. I think I'm done though 🙂 Why don't you just come out with it! Honestly I don't want to follow your Christ anyway. If you say you have no sin you lie but Christ is faithful. At least with R.C. we can argue and disagree but no pretense I know where he stands. To follow Christ is to love your neighbor and even your enemies. I only wish that I could do 1/10th of what Christ did. With His help I will. I will tell you were I stand I would call myself a classic Christian. I can't dismiss Paul's words. I believe He was a tool being used by Christ. There is a balance between works and God's grace. Works done in pride and ignorance will not please God. Christ was the epitome of humble. Paul was just a man But he was used by God.
Manny