Born again!

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Exactly, I think technically speaking, the New Covenant actually began in the book of Acts on the day of Pentecost. Jesus had instructed his Disciples to tarry in Jerusalem until the promise of the Father...
Then the disciples were the first to speak in tongues, etc...

the covenant (agreement) was made with the disciples on Nisan 14th, 33CE, after sundown the day of the Jewish passover in an upper room in Jerusalem, it was a covenant for a Kingdom, the actual pouring out of Holy spirit did not take place until what has come to be known as pentecost, this of course was prophesied in the Hebrew scriptures,

(Joel 2:28, 29) And after that it must occur that I shall pour out my spirit on every sort of flesh, and your sons and your daughters will certainly prophesy. As for your old men, dreams they will dream. As for your young men, visions they will see. And even on the menservants and on the maidservants in those days I shall pour out my spirit.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I am not as interested in end times as many here are. I am more interested in walking by the spirit and putting off the flesh. I know God is good, and in the end he wins and so do I. That is all I need to know for the time being.
I am interested in seeing more people healed of sickness, poverty, depression, etc. I am more interested in seeing the power that I have in the spirit being released in the physical, and preaching the Good News.

Do you not see the need in what Jesus commanded all his followers to do in the last days with the teaching work he commanded, yes commanded us to do that is brought out in Matt the 24th chapter? Or are you above that and you do things other ways?
If you do teach this good news as you say, what is this good news?

Originally posted by galveston75
Do you not see the need in what Jesus commanded all his followers to do in the last days with the teaching work he commanded, yes commanded us to do that is brought out in Matt the 24th chapter? Or are you above that and you do things other ways?
If you do teach this good news as you say, what is this good news?

If you do teach this good news as you say, what is this good news?

That we don't have to perish, that we have everlasting life (John 3:16), that we can now choose not to sin, that we can have holy spirit in us without condition like in the old testament, that God will meet our needs, that we can be healed,that God and Jesus fellowship with us, the good news or the gospel goes on and on with blessings that are too numerous to write on my lunch 1/2 hour.

Exactly, I think technically speaking, the New Covenant actually began in the book of Acts on the day of Pentecost. Jesus had instructed his Disciples to tarry in Jerusalem until the promise of the Father...
Then the disciples were the first to speak in tongues, etc...

I teach that the disciples first received the Holy Spirit in John 20 the evening after His resurrection. It was in the evening of that day that He breathed into the disciples and told them to receive the Holy Spirit.

See John 20:19-25.

[b]" ... He showed them His hands and His side. The disciples therefore rejoiced at seeing the Lord. Then Jesus said to them again, Peace be to you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.

And when He had said this, He breathed into [them] and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit.

Whosever sins you forgive, they are forgiven them: ... etc."

This breathing into the disciples was their being born again by the Spirit of Jesus, And this was the fulfillment of His promise of Another Comforter to be in them.

What you have at the day of Pentecost is the Holy Spirit coming upon the disciples with power to equip them for ministry. This coming of the Holy Spirit was the promise of the Father to empower them for a strong testimony -

"And behold, I send forth the promise of My Father upon you; but as for you, stay in the city until you put on power from on high.

And He led them out as far as Bethany, and He lifted up His hands and blessed them. And while He blessed them, He parted from them and was carried up into heaven." (Luke 24:49-51)

This reminder before His ascension is in Acts 1:7 also -

"But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria nad unto the uttermost part of the earth."

The descending of the Holy Spirit to clothe the disciples with power was the fulfillment of the promise of the Father to empower them. The coming of the Holy Spirit as the breath Jesus breathed into the disciples was for their life ... for their regeneration.

The first imparting on the evening of His resurrection was a matter of divine life. The second incident some 40 days latter was to equip them with power.

Life in more fundamental than power.
Life is more inward and subjective that power.

Both are needed.
Luke emphasizes the power of the Holy Spirit upon the apostles.
John emphasizes the impartation the Holy Spirit inwardly for new life.

Before the Holy Spirit descended at Pentecost the disciples were praying for ten days straight. They could not have prayed for ten days together straight like that unless they had the Holy Spirit within. So the outward clothing and equipping of the Spirit for power was not their first encounter with the Holy Spirit.

They had received the Holy Spirit at the resurrection of Jesus.

Originally posted by sonship

Exactly, I think technically speaking, the New Covenant actually began in the book of Acts on the day of Pentecost. Jesus had instructed his Disciples to tarry in Jerusalem until the promise of the Father...
Then the disciples were the first to speak in tongues, etc...

I teach that the disciples [b]first received the Holy Spirit in with the Holy Spirit.

They had received the Holy Spirit at the resurrection of Jesus.[/b]

People were recipients of holy spirit before Jesus was even born as a man,

(Luke 2:25, 26) And, look! there was a man in Jerusalem named Simeon, and this man was righteous and reverent, waiting for Israel’s consolation, and holy spirit was upon him. Furthermore, it had been divinely revealed to him by the holy spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Christ of Jehovah.

Simeon was not even a Christian, he was a Jew and a recipient of Holy spirit, your jive talk about regeneration is just that and your assertion that it meant their life, gobbledygook, why do you continually impose your own ideas on scripture when none is explicitly stated nor inferred from the passage, is Gods word no enough for us, are you some kind of mediator that must mediate on our behalf by putting yourself between us and Gods word??

Originally posted by sonship

Exactly, I think technically speaking, the New Covenant actually began in the book of Acts on the day of Pentecost. Jesus had instructed his Disciples to tarry in Jerusalem until the promise of the Father...
Then the disciples were the first to speak in tongues, etc...

I teach that the disciples [b]first received the Holy Spirit in ...[text shortened]... with the Holy Spirit.

They had received the Holy Spirit at the resurrection of Jesus.[/b]

Yes, I have seen these verses. But Jesus could have been instructing them "breathe in" until the promise of the Father had come. Then I thought this is when they were baptized in holy spirit. The cloven tongues is what was "upon" them, I think this was phenomenon, but holy spirit, is "in" them.
If you notice Peter's boldness in his first sermon after they spoke in tongues, this boldness had not been there before...just my thoughts.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
People were recipients of holy spirit before Jesus was even born as a man,

(Luke 2:25, 26) And, look! there was a man in Jerusalem named Simeon, and this man was righteous and reverent, waiting for Israel’s consolation, and holy spirit was upon him. Furthermore, it had been divinely revealed to him by the holy spirit that he would not see death b ...[text shortened]... kind of mediator that must mediate on our behalf by putting yourself between us and Gods word??

Oh, how ... banal.

Originally posted by checkbaiter

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Yes, I have seen these verses. But Jesus could have been instructing them "breathe in" until the promise of the Father had come.

Why would Jesus be teaching them to breath in for 40 days when they have been doing so their whole lives ?

Then I thought this is when they were baptized in holy spirit. The cloven tongues is what was "upon" them, I think this was phenomenon, but holy spirit, is "in" them.

It is clear to me that the writer intends the reader to understand that all the words about the "Another Comforter" and the "Spirit of truth" spoken in chapters 14 and 16 find their fulfillment in this moment -

"Then Jesus said to them again, Peace be to you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you. And when He had said this H breathed into [them] and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit." (v.22)

John so writes that we understand -

This was the Spirit expected in 7:39 and promised in the same book 14:16-17, 26; 15:26; and 16:7-8. Right out from Himself into them He breaths the Comfoter . He demonstrates that He is breathing Himself into them in another form.

This fulfillment differs from the one in Acts 2:1-4, which was the fulfillment of the Father's promise in Luke 24:49. There the Spirit came as a violent rushing wind as power upon the disciples for their work (Acts 1:8).

Here the Spirit as breath was breathed as life into the disciples for their life. By breathing the Spirit into the disciples, the Lord Jesus imparted Himself into them as life and everything. Chapter 20 therefore fulfills all that Christ had spoken in chapters 14 through 16.

First Corinthians 15:45 says "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit". The Holy Spirit is the life giving Spirit is Christ Himself who came that we might have life and have it abundantly (John 10:10).

Perhaps Christ dramatized the breathing of Himself into the disciples with Genesis 2:7 in mind. This was a momentous event. This was not the creation of the old man, the first man Adam. This was the second man Jesus bringing into creation the new man. As the last Adam He is the Head of a new humanity - the church. He is the "life giving Spirit" Himself. Or He is the source of life to the new man which now is instead of the old fallen man created in Genesis 2:9 when God breathed into man's nostrils the breath of life.

That man's innermost being became deadened and comatose. It needed to be reborn. It needed to be touched by the resurrected last Adam - He is "the resurrection and the life" (John 11:25)

And man is regenerated through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead (1 Pet. 1:3) -

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has regenerated us unto a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead ..."

The hope is a "living hope" because Jesus in the disciples is a living Person.

The Apostle John writes clearly that we would understand that the Comforter was simply Christ Himself in another form. For the Comforter to come was for Jesus Himself to come to them -

" ... the Spirit of reality, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him; but you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you.

I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you." (John 14:17,18)

The He and Him in verse 17 suddenly becomes the "I" in verse 18. The "I" in verse 18 is the "He" in the previous verse. It means He will come - I am coming to you.

" ... but you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you."

As the physical man Jesus He had been abiding WITH the disciples for three years plus. Now He promises to send "Another Comforter". If there is "Another Comforter" that means that there was a previous Comforter.

The previous Comforter was Jesus who had been abiding with them, whom they knew, whom the world did not know. The "Another Comforter" is this first Comforter coming to them in another form - as the Spirit of truth, or the Spirit of reality.

When Jesus says "I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you" He is not speaking of the second coming at the end of the church age. He is speaking of His coming to them as Another Comforter to indwell them, dwell within them. He was with them. But He soon will be in them.

In John 20 He comes to them and transfers His presence INTO them by the symbolic act of breathing into them. It is here that He did not leave them as orphans but came to indwell them.

If you notice Peter's boldness in his first sermon after they spoke in tongues, this boldness had not been there before...just my thoughts

Yes they testified with great power. But before they could do so they needed something else - ONENESS, UNITY, ONE ACCORD. And for that Jesus had the born again disciples pray for 10 days.

The Bible says that Peter "stood with the eleven". These individualistic disciples were all born again and blended into harmony. God poured out His power upon the oneness. That was the key to the impact of the baptism of the Holy Spirit - the one accord, the unity.

I think the key to the momentous power displayed at Pentecost was a result of the disciples praying themselves into oneness. The pouring out of the power of the Holy Spirit was upon the Body. That is those 120 representing the whole Body of Christ. It was not the seeking of individualistic baptisms. But it was taking each his or her place in the unity, in the Body of Christ. Then the pouring out came down upon the Body, upon the brothers and sisters in one accord.

We need divine life within. And for impact we need the one accord in love, the unity.

Originally posted by sonship

Yes, I have seen these verses. But Jesus could have been instructing them "breathe in" until the promise of the Father had come.

Why would Jesus be teaching them to breath in for 40 days when they have been doing so their whole lives ?

[quote] Then I thought this is when they were baptized in holy spirit. The cloven tongues is what ...[text shortened]... impact we need the one accord in love, the unity.

Man you say a whole lot without saying a whole lot!!!! What does all this have to do with the subject of this thread?

Originally posted by galveston75
Man you say a whole lot without saying a whole lot!!!! What does all this have to do with the subject of this thread?

Everything...this is what born again really means ...

Originally posted by galveston75
"Born Again"


Definition: Being born again involves being baptized in water (“born from water&rdquo😉 and begotten by God’s spirit (“born from . . . spirit&rdquo😉, thus becoming a son of God with the prospect of sharing in the Kingdom of God. (John 3:3-5) Jesus had this experience, as do the 144,000 who are heirs with him of the heavenly Kingdom.

do you think the splashing of water actually means anything to god, is it just window dressing to make it feel more special for the humans involved?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Everything...this is what born again really means ...

Seems like a really long and complicated way of saying something that is really simple.

Originally posted by galveston75
First the terms new heaven and new earth are symbolic. They are not physically destroyed and then re created. Why in reality would that have to happen?
If you look at the scriptures of the time that speaks of Jesus fighting with satan, it shows that of course Jesus wins and then cast satan and his demons down to earth.
So from that time on the spirit literal because of the other things spoken of such as the great crowd that is uncountable.

I wouldn't for a second imply that you made up the number 144,000 but that is not really the issue. The question is why a religion would interpret those verses of scripture as meaning there will be, can only be, is required to be, 144,000 people only in heaven. It is a rather strange assertion, even you must secretly realise this.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
do you think the splashing of water actually means anything to god, is it just window dressing to make it feel more special for the humans involved?

Well it must as it's his arrangment and we are told do it just as his son Jesus did himself by example...

Originally posted by Velns
I wouldn't for a second imply that you made up the number 144,000 but that is not really the issue. The question is why a religion would interpret those verses of scripture as meaning there will be, can only be, is required to be, 144,000 people only in heaven. It is a rather strange assertion, even you must secretly realise this.

Lol. Don't put words in my mouth as I don't disagree at all. It is a perfect arrangment for this Kingdom of God to be ruled by his son.
Why do you feel this number is not adequate? Do you feel that if needed Jesus could not do this even on his own but much less with 144,000 spirits that were once human, walked this planet and experianced all that we do even here today with sicknesses, injustices, sadness, and even death? Would you prefer just angels who have never experianced any of that first hand do their job?
So not only were these hand picked by God for their extreem faithfulness while being humans but now we get help from them as they were all once humans?
So what number of humans going to heaven would you be happy with?

I asked you a series of questions a few post ago. No comments?