03 Jul 08
Originally posted by Rajk999You would be pretty close to right if you were an Israelite back before they were cast aside or during the tribulation.
My view of it is that Jesus's sacrifice gives everyone a chance at salvation. Its up to us to accept that free gift by doing several things :
1. Having faith and believing in the gospel or the good news that Christ will one day return.
2. Baptism.
3. Doing good works.
According to Christ (enough scripture has already been quoted) :
#3 Works is not si ...[text shortened]... ve you salvation on judgement day.
Faith without works is meaningless. All three are required.
Romans chapter 10 and 11
03 Jul 08
Originally posted by PinkFloydThere is only the KJV. My copy has Christs own words in red!
You will NOT change the mind of a Holiness/Pentecostal, any more than a Fundamentalist Southern Baptist who says that the only true Bible is the KJV. It just ain't gonna happen.
All other books purporting to be the real thing are pale forgeries.
03 Jul 08
Originally posted by Rajk999We all fail to do good works, that is why it is not anything we do that gets us saved. It is Christ that does the work in us that saves us.
Here is one man that failed to do good works. If you can talk to him my guess is that he will strongly disagree with you ... 😀
Luke 16 : 19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desir ...[text shortened]... ood things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
04 Jul 08
Originally posted by Rajk999Nothing voided the teachings of Christ. They are still true as every and full of good things. But they are to Israel. If you could get saved by them here you would need new to be a jewish convert, circumcised too.
Care to be more specific?
What exactly happened after the tribulation that voided the teachings of Christ?
Matthew 10:5-7
(5) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
(6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
(7) And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Matthew 15:22-28
(22) And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
(23) But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
(24) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
(25) Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
(26) But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
(27) And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
(28) Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
Mark 7:25-28
(25) For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet:
(26) The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter.
(27) But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.
(28) And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs.
Isaiah 60:1-5
(1) Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.
(2) For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
(3) And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.
(4) Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side.
(5) Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.
Romans 2:25
(25) For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
04 Jul 08
Originally posted by Rajk999Paulinists (they aren't Christians) like to ignore St James' explicit statement to this effect.
According to Christ (enough scripture has already been quoted) :
#3 Works is not simply an option as some think. Its a requirement.
# 1 & 2 will not get you saved or give you salvation on judgement day.
Faith without works is meaningless. All three are required.
Nemesio
04 Jul 08
Originally posted by NemesioThe real test is this. Can you obey these words which Jesus spoke?
It sounds like you are saying that the Gospels are irrelevant except to Messianic Jews.
Nemesio
(Mat 17:20) And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
(Mat 10:7) And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
(Mat 10:8) Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
(Mat 17:19) Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
(Mat 17:20) And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
(Mar 6:12) And they went out, and preached that men should repent.
(Mar 6:13) And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them.
(Mar 16:15) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
(Mar 16:16) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
(Mar 16:17) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
(Mar 16:18) They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
(Mar 16:19) So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
(Mar 16:20) And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
They clearly could.
04 Jul 08
Originally posted by SmoothCowboyI was a teacher for many years and there were always students who thought that when they could not answer an exam question that it was ok to try to BS their way through and write at length on an unrelated topic. Jesus is a whole lot smarter than I am and if I could smell BS a mile off think of what He is capable of.
The real test is this. Can you obey these words which Jesus spoke?
(Mat 17:20) And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
(Mat 10:7) And as y ...[text shortened]... rd working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
They clearly could.
So Christ says a few things that are difficult or even impossible to do. What about what you CAN do?
- feed the poor
- help the needy
- visit the sick, the fatherless and the widowed.
- help those in distress
- visit those in prison, hospitals.
- just help, give your time your expertise, your money, GIVE !
Can you not obey those words ? Sounds like you have buried the talents God gave you thinking that nothing could be done. Remember the parable of the talents in Matt 25?
05 Jul 08
Originally posted by Rajk999I believe that we should do those things. However,doing those things will not make you good enough to stand before God. God is perfect. His standard of perfection is perfect. If you sin once you are not perfect(a sinner).James 2:10
I was a teacher for many years and there were always students who thought that when they could not answer an exam question that it was ok to try to BS their way through and write at length on an unrelated topic. Jesus is a whole lot smarter than I am and if I could smell BS a mile off think of what He is capable of.
So Christ says a few things that are di ...[text shortened]... od gave you thinking that nothing could be done. Remember the parable of the talents in Matt 25?
(10) For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
How can you think that doing these things can save you. Even King David recognized they can't. He knew God would make him clean.Psalms 51:7-16
(7) Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
(8) Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
(9) Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
(10) Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
(11) Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
(12) Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
(13) Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
(14) Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
(15) O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.
(16) For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
Psalms 103:3-4
(3) Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;
(4) Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies;
Psalms 103:12
(12) As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
In James 2 works is the response of faith.James 2:20
(20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:22
(22) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
They would not be obeying if they did not do them. They read they need to keep laws, they believe it, and they do what the words say(faith). If they didn't do what the words said, would they be faithful? Is it doing the works that make you good enough before God? Or is it God seeing your faithfulness to his word and forgiving you by the work of the cross?
Forgive me if I am wrong,but are you excusing the words from the verses in Matt.10:7-8,Mark16:15-20...etc?
This is the truth.John 14:6
(6) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Acts 4:12
(12) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.