16 Aug 08
Originally posted by kirksey957Bad analogies. In those scenarios, you were simply a customer, not someone showing an interest in anything the job would entail. If you'd start to rearrange misplaced food in the grocery store, it wouldn't be too surprising if they'd ask if you have ever thought about working in a grocery store. If you'd not only bring your car to the car mechanic, but stay there to see what exactly he's doing and lend him a hand, I wouldn't surprised if he'd ask if you have ever thought of becoming a car mechanic. Etc.
I have been through the checkout line in a grocery store m any times in my life. I have never been asked by the cashier if I wanted to be a cashier.
I have been to the car mechanic many times in my life. I have never been asked by any of them if I wanted to be a car mechanic.
I sometimes will see my mailman and say "hi." He has never asked me if ...[text shortened]... have gone out to eat many times. I have never been asked if I wanted to be a chef or waiter.
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16 Aug 08
2 edits
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesCome off it. The girl had broken off her engagement; she was confused about her life goals. A retreat was an ideal situation to discern her "purpose". She was hardly coerced; given her initial decision to visit the cathedral, it is obvious that she wanted to pray about these matters. A nun didn't need to coerce her.
I'm leaving that as an exercise for the interested reader.
So the evidence you have that she manipulated amounts to: a nun asked her if she had considered becoming a nun and asked her to attend a retreat. You must be really low on anti-Catholic ammunition.
Why is it that all her family and friends are satisfied that she has made a mature choice?
16 Aug 08
Originally posted by DoctorScribbles"Sent" = told to go to that guy for a retreat.
"Two years ago, Marry sent Parra to a priest for an eight-day silent retreat."
She has about seven years before she's allowed to make a permanent commitment, and prior to that can leave. It doesn't look good: she cried a lot instead of being sure, and she lived with mommy and daddy up until she entered. Once she's there for a while, she'll be better able to make a mature decision either way. There are many steps and statuses between now and then. Even after she makes permanent vows, it is still possible to leave the order; it just becomes more complicated then and involves the Pope.
Some churches still believe what was written on that church's web site (my cousins went to that church and its school!). Many think that's a bunch of poppycock and have both male and female altar servers regardless of how many boys are available.
(Going back to my school work now. Shame on you for starting an interesting thread!)
16 Aug 08
1 edit
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesWe all have to make decisions, and that often means that we have to give up on something we would really like to do, in favour of something else we'd also really like to do. She'll probably have some regrets (of course if those regrets turn out to be too strong, she can still change her mind). She'd probably also have some regrets if she had chosen to be a wife and mother over becoming a nun.
Until the priests and nuns started manipulating her, and even well afterwards, she knew that she wanted to be a wife and a mother. She seems like a kind-hearted woman that would be perfectly suited to both roles.
I wonder if you would react in the same way if a woman had always thought she'd want to become a nun, and then she met a man who courted her, she fell in love, completely changed her mind about what she wanted to do with her life and became a wife and mother.
16 Aug 08
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesWell now here we have what's really different. You disagree with her faith and so you can't understand her decisions. Maybe she'd feel sorry for you in return for being Godless!?
All I know is that if I ever wind up at an 8-day prayer retreat, it's because somebody sent me there -- as in packed me in a box and had UPS deliver me.
16 Aug 08
Originally posted by Conrau KWas the Pope coerced or manipulated into joining the Hitler Youth?
Come off it. The girl had broken off her engagement; she was confused about her life goals. A retreat was an ideal situation to discern her "purpose". She was hardly coerced; given her initial decision to visit the cathedral, it is obvious that she wanted to pray about these matters. A nun didn't need to coerce her.
So the evidence you have that she ma ...[text shortened]...
Why is it that all her family and friends are satisfied that she has made a mature choice?
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16 Aug 08
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesCoerced. The Pope was an unwilling recruit whose life would have been jeopardised had he overtly resisted the Hitler regime.
Was the Pope coerced or manipulated into joining the Hitler Youth?
http://bc.edu/research/cjl/meta-elements/texts/cjrelations/topics/new_pope_defied_nazis.htm
17 Aug 08
Originally posted by NordlysIt would be nice if Doc responded to this post.
We all have to make decisions, and that often means that we have to give up on something we would really like to do, in favour of something else we'd also really like to do. She'll probably have some regrets (of course if those regrets turn out to be too strong, she can still change her mind). She'd probably also have some regrets if she had chosen to be a w ...[text shortened]... ely changed her mind about what she wanted to do with her life and became a wife and mother.
17 Aug 08
Originally posted by Conrau KI did not think that a devout Catholic would value his life over all other considerations.
Coerced. The Pope was an unwilling recruit whose life would have been jeopardised had he overtly resisted the Hitler regime.
http://bc.edu/research/cjl/meta-elements/texts/cjrelations/topics/new_pope_defied_nazis.htm
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17 Aug 08
Originally posted by no1marauderHe does not have a moral duty to sacrifice his life; he is only morally bound to avoid material cooperation in evil acts. From what I can make of the NYT article, he did not cooperate with the Hitler Youth. It is not even clear whether he enrolled himself, or whether the seminary or his school did.
I did not think that a devout Catholic would value his life over all other considerations.