05 Feb 19
@fmf saidTrue. But is it really necessary to waste time arguing over each other's personal foibles? Or make critical remarks relative to another's psychological condition?
Everyone here is "self-appointed".
It seems to me, and I keep asking myself this question, that we keep drifting away from the topic of discussion, so why can't we keep our comments directed at the topics of discussion and away from all these ad hominem remarks?
Or are we all just a bunch of self righteous and self appointed knob heads looking for a way to bolster our low self esteem by dragging someone else through the mud?
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05 Feb 19
@secondson saidMy own approach to this is as follows:
Or are we all just a bunch of self righteous and self appointed knob heads looking for a way to bolster our low self esteem by dragging someone else through the mud?
1. I let a poster know if I believe they are (of their own volition) standing in mud.
2. I explain clearly why I believe they are standing in mud.
3. I give them the opportunity to extract themselves from the mud.
4. If they stubbornly refuse to get out of the mud,...I let them wallow.
5. Any subsequent mud dragging is, therefore, self-inflicted.
So, for example, when we had sonship create a flippant thread about suicide (which rightly received a huge number of thumbs down) I let him know he had stepped in mud, explained reasonably why this was the case and gave him the opportunity to realize this and climb out of it. However, when sonship refused to acknowledge he was standing in mud I was content for him to remain there and drag himself around.
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Christ is the Place of Redemption.
The Apostle Paul says as we RECEIVED Him we should go on in the same way to WALK in Him.
"As therefore you have received the Christ, Jesus the Lord, walk in Him.
Having been rooted and being built up in Him ... " (Col. 2:6,7a
This is a profound and peculiar metaphor. The believers are ROOTED in this Christ like a plant absorbing all the riches out of the soil. Yet they are also to WALK around in Christ as a sphere, as a realm.
Peter also says to enter into this grace and STAND IN IT. That is like the Person is a place.
" .. I have written to you briefly, exhorting and testifying fully that this is the true grace of God; enter into this grace and stand in it." (1 Pet. 5:12b)
Stand there in this place, in this living Person who is God enjoyed by us.
Paul again speaks of us "standing" in the place of grace.
"Through whom also we have obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand and boast because of the hope of the glory of God." (Rom. 5:2)
The place is not heaven per se but a living God, a living Person with whom human beings may be in union and oneness with.
A place that Jesus went to the cross to prepare for those who would come to the Triune God in salvation.
" .. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go to prepare a place for you, I am coming again and will receive you to Myself, so that where I am you also may be."" (John 14:3)
This is both profound and mystical. Christ is a living place for us to be received by Him, stand in Him, be rooted in Him, be built up in Him, and be with Him in the blending together of God the divine and we the human.
Christ suffered that He might bring us to God, not to heaven, but to God actually primarily.
" For Christ also has suffered once for sins, the Righteous on behalf of the unrighteous,
that He might bring you to God, ... " (1 Peter 3:18a)
05 Feb 19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidPerhaps you misjudged sonship's motives and presumptuously projected a bias and misunderstood his intent.
My own approach to this is as follows:
1. I let a poster know if I believe they are (of their own volition) standing in mud.
2. I explain clearly why I believe they are standing in mud.
3. I give them the opportunity to extract themselves from the mud.
4. If they stubbornly refuse to get out of the mud,...I let them wallow.
5. Any subsequent mud dragging is, th ...[text shortened]... to acknowledge he was standing in mud I was content for him to remain there and drag himself around.
But of course I should locate said thread and see for myself.
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05 Feb 19
@secondson saidI don't think so.
Perhaps you misjudged sonship's motives and presumptuously projected a bias and misunderstood his intent.
But of course I should locate said thread and see for myself.
Any Christian who declares Jesus has made suicide obsolete has (of their own volition) stepped in mud.
@secondson saidOh, the irony.
Or are we all just a bunch of self righteous and self appointed knob heads looking for a way to bolster our low self esteem by dragging someone else through the mud?
@secondson saidAnd yet you are the one using these attacks:
It seems to me, and I keep asking myself this question, that we keep drifting away from the topic of discussion, so why can't we keep our comments directed at the topics of discussion and away from all these ad hominem remarks?
Enemy of God
Fake Christian
Ashole
Pin head
Dense
...and so on and so forth.
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Any Christian who declares Jesus has made suicide obsolete has (of their own volition) stepped in mud.
Jesus Christ because of His terminating death which we can apply in the power of the Holy Spirit, does the job cleanly and effectively that suicide INTENDS to do yet really doesn't.
Many passages about being crucified WITH Christ, dying WITH Christ, Being buried WITH Christ, being raised WITH Christ, Seated above all oppression and depression WITH Christ, reigning WITH Christ, overcoming WITH Christ, conquering WITH Christ.
Identification in the Holy Spirit WITH Christ is the New Testaments answer to asceticism or even suicide.
Paul pioneered in this experience and helps believer in Christ to see the way. I stand by it.
I too have some experience of it. I need much much more.
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06 Feb 19
@sonship saidNo.
Ghost,
So Jesus Christ to you is "mud" ?
In comparison to the life and words of Christ, your life and words are what if His are "mud"?
What's mud is you claiming Jesus has made suicide obsolete when every day theists and non-theists alike take their own lives for a multitude of reasons.
Get it yet?
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06 Feb 19
@sonship saidLike I said, you don't just step in mud, you wallow in it.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
Any Christian who declares Jesus has made suicide obsolete has (of their own volition) stepped in mud.
Jesus Christ because of His terminating death which we can apply in the power of the Holy Spirit, does the job cleanly and effectively that suicide INTENDS to do yet really doesn't.
Many passages about being crucified WITH Chris ...[text shortened]... Christ to see the way. I stand by it.
I too have some experience of it. I need much much more.
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08 Feb 19
1 edit
What's mud is you claiming Jesus has made suicide obsolete when every day theists and non-theists alike take their own lives for a multitude of reasons.
Get it yet?
This answer only means that such people NEED to know what I had to say. It is unnecessary. We can terminate the troublesome man through allowing Christ's death to operate for us.
You don't get it that the claim is not that all Christians have availed themselves of this fact - our co-death with Christ.
Your objection is like saying budgeting doesn't work because many people run out of money too soon.
Many who still suffer need help to learn how to budget.
Non-theists need to come to Christ to learn.
Christians new and old need to learn much more about applying all Christ has done for us to work for them.
Christ said to come to Him to LEARN of Him, not that it was automatic that all is learned.
Come t o Me all who labor and are burdened, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke ob you and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart, and you shall find rest to your souls;
For My yoke is pleasant and My burden is light." (Matt. 11:28-30)
Don't tell me Christ's words are ineffective because, after all, theists and non-theists alike have not all learned of Him.
Christ's death is applicable and has made the despair of suicide not as effective as what He can do. Many Christians will tell you that that is so.
08 Feb 19
@sonship saidMy mother was a Christian who committed suicide; how does your ideology account for that?
Identification in the Holy Spirit WITH Christ is the New Testaments answer to asceticism or even suicide.