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09 Nov 17
Originally posted by @divegeesterDo you know that he is not?
You said you didn’t know if FMF was a follower of Satan or not. Isn’t people playing the “I don’t know card” something that you get upset about? 😉
Originally posted by @dj2beckerrobbie carrobie tried this same brand of 'conversation' a year or two back when he had his 'how can anyone know for sure that FMF isn't a child sex abuser?'
Do you know that he is not?
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Originally posted by @divegeesterStill no answer from you.
And I’ve explained why several times.
I’m here now, ready to go.
Are you up for the challenge or are you just going to fiddle with your willy a bit more.
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Originally posted by @fmfYou talked about your contributions.
Why would you dodge the actual question under discussion by pretending that it's about me being a Satanist when you know full well that I don't believe "Satan" exists?
Exactly what do you hope to contribute to this thread by this line of questioning?
By asking two or more people here "Am I a follower of Satan" what is the contribution you hope to make?
Is it that hate speech is being unfairly made towards you?
Is it that it that you can usually craft questions so as to cause bystanders to assume a Christian is superstitious bigot?
Is that your contribution?
So big deal, you are part of the whole world. And the Bible says the whole world lies in the evil one.
"We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in the evil one." (1 John 5:19)
Do you want Christians to regard you as so perfect and special that you're the exception and in no means "follow Satan" ? That's not going to happen. You got poisoned just as much as the rest of us. And salvation is extended to you just the same as it is to the rest of us.
You boast that you're not offended. But it seems that you do wish to pursue this line of questions to as to show that it is offensive to say you of all people (like everybody else after Adam) were "Satanified". ie. captured and made a follower of his principle of rebellion, independence, sin and death.
Your being very egotistical. So the Bible says the whole has been deceived by Satan the Devil, but you're an exception, and how DARE anyone say you're a follower of Satan.
Besides, if you really want to be independent from God in totality you should be proud to be called a follower of Satan. Why don't you wear it as a badge of honor instead of try to prove how offensive the charge is?
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The whole world is said to lie IN the evil one - Satan.
That's why the whole world needs the Savior Christ.
The whole world has also been deceived by Satan.
" ... the ancient serpent, he who is called the Devil and Satan, he who deceives the whole world ... " (See Rev. 12:9)
Of course the New Testament does not make belief in the Devil a prerequisite for salvation. It helps for the Bible to expose how extensive the ruination of man's relationship to God has been and its causes.
Instead of FMF trying to hold people's feet to the fire ... "Say I'm a follower of Satan. Say I'm a follower of Satan" it be better for him to insist that Christians tell him the positive part that he is loved by Christ.
Can you see some skeptic holding a Christian's feet to the fire in this way? ...
"Go ahead. Say it. Say it again that Jesus loves me. Say it that Jesus died for me. Stop dodging my questions. Say it again Jesus died for WHO ??"
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I don't what some posters are trying to contribute to the discussion.
I'm trying to contribute that one important aspect of "Christian morals" is utter identification with Jesus Christ.
His life - our history.
His life - our moral clothing.
His life - our legacy.
And I do not mean this in a sentimental way.
When we say Christ can live in your heart we are not speaking in sentimental terms.
We are speaking in practical terms because this Jesus Christ is alive and available to be known.
Christian morals (for this purpose - Christian ethical thought and living) is a Person we can actually "put on". This morning I mused over this verse about putting on attributes of God as they have been expressed in Christ's human virtues and made available to us believers.
"Put on therefore, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, inward parts of compassion, kindness, lowliness, meekness, long-suffering; bearing one another and forgiving one another, ..." (Col. 3:12,13)
Notice that -
1.) This is like putting on clothing.
2.) It is putting on "inward parts".
It is a putting on Jesus Christ as His Spirit has come into the heart of the believer (in reality, in practicality). It is to aspect by aspect, here and there, more and more put on Jesus Christ within Himself.
"But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh to fulfill its lusts" (Rom. 13:14)
Christ is alive and available.
Christ can be PUT ON so that He becomes us. Ie. He walks the earth again, but this time wearing us and we wearing Him.
Originally posted by @sonshipI am not offended by what you say sonship. Please don't be so puffed up. And I don’t believe "Satan" exists.
You talked about your contributions.
Exactly what do you hope to contribute to this thread by this line of questioning?
By asking two or more people here "Am I a follower of Satan" what is the contribution you hope to make?
Is it that hate speech is being unfairly made towards you?
Is it that it that you can usually craft questions so as to cause ...[text shortened]... Why don't you wear it as a badge of honor instead of try to prove how offensive the charge is?
What I'm interested in is how your superstitions distort your interpersonal skills and make a bit of a mess of your humanity sometimes.
I discuss and debate stuff like this with religionists like you because I find the detrimental effect your beliefs have on you to be quite interesting.
I find the Christians here, generally speaking, to be either uglier or more dysfunctional - and sometimes more repellant - than the many Christian I live among and love.
If you are anything like you are here in 'real life', you would cut a tragic figure in the Christian circles I move in. That makes you somewhat of an intriguing person to interact with, at least sometimes.
This forum, after all, is dedicated to debate and discussion. If it were your personal blog (you sometimes act as if you think it is) or a Christians-only web site [where 75% of your spammy copy pastes - about which you often show little or no willingness to discuss and debate - belong], I wouldn't be here.
Originally posted by @sonshipMorality is what governs behaviour, conduct and actions. Rather than going on and on an on about stuff you think about yourself, why not offer some exmples of Christian behaviour, conduct and actions that are different from non-Christian behaviour, conduct and actions, and dissect the contrasts in morality rather than regurgitating ideology and doctrine over and over again. It's as if your doing your damndest NOT to talk about morals but just want to talk about stuff you think about yourself and about supernatural beings.
Christian morals (for this purpose - Christian ethical thought and living) is a Person we can actually "put on".
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Originally posted by @fmfMorality is what governs behaviour, conduct and actions.
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And that is why I spoke to the Christian experience of "the law of the Spirit of life ... in Christ Jesus" in Romans 8.
That is about God spontaneously effecting human behavior.
So that is right along the line of "Christian morals" which is what the OP asked about.
Rather than going on and on an on about stuff you think about yourself,
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Correction: I am going on and on about stuff that has been written there in the New Testament for some two thousand years or so.
That I may add a note about my personal experience (even if limited) is appropriate to the subject Christian Morals.
why not offer some exmples of Christian behaviour, conduct and actions that are different from non-Christian behaviour, conduct and actions, and dissect the contrasts in morality rather than regurgitating ideology and doctrine over and over again.
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Why not you not tell me how I want to present MY argument.
And you just present YOUR argument the way YOU want to.
I don't often go to an atheist to get coaching on how I should teach.
Besides, I may get to that WITH AN UNDERSTANDING.
It is a matter of Christ verses everyone else.
The real contrast is between Christ, who some allow to live in them, and others not yet or not intending to learn about that.
I anticipate a Chris Hitchens argument coming - 'What can you Christians do that anyone else can't do?" Is that where you're headed?
It's as if your doing your damndest NOT to talk about morals
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No, correction. You are doing your damndest to frame the discussion in YOUR terms - without the presence, reality, or even possibility of God.
You're doing YOUR damndest to draw me into your athiestic humanistic ballpark.
No pun intended.
but just want to talk about stuff you think about yourself and about supernatural beings.
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F again.
I want to talk about what the New Testament says about Christ's influence on "behavior, conduct and actions".
That I may speak from some personal experience is ENTIRELY appropriate.
Why should I hide it if I have some experience?
Nice try.
Well,... maybe not that nice.
Originally posted by @sonshipCan you compare and contrast Christian morality, as it pertains to behaviour, conduct and actions, to non-Christian morality, as it pertains to behaviour, conduct and actions?
[b] Morality is what governs behaviour, conduct and actions.
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And that is why I spoke to the Christian experience of "the law of the Spirit of life ... in Christ Jesus" in Romans 8.
That is about God spontaneously effecting human behavior.
So that is right a ...[text shortened]... e.
Why should I hide it if I have some experience?
Nice try.
Well,... maybe not that nice.[/b]
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So we have it again, the request that sound like this:
"We want you to talk about the Gospel of Christ. BUT we want you to frame every aspect of the talk in terms limited to what Humanism can teach."
Living gives rise to culture.
We who are enjoying grace from God and grace in the experience of Christ actually give rise to a kind of new culture. And you unbelievers are just going to have to get use to that.
A somewhat new culture may even call for new terms or the use of familiar words but with application to this new culture - this new way of living.
The skeptic's job is to counter that there IS no new way of living.
We live without God in every way. So it is not legitimate to speak of God as involved.
"Why don't you talk the way we talk?"
Well, I cannot talk exactly as you talk because you don't know about "Son of God," or "Holy Spirit" or "redemption" or "justification" or "regeneration" or "life divine" or "walk by the Spirit" or "set the mind on the spirit" or "conformation" or "transformation" or "sanctification" . etc.
And I am not expecting all these to be grasped instantly because one is bright and intelligent.
These are real aspects of a new culture on the earth.
I am trying my .... blessedness ... to help some to understand them.
It is not impossible to come into some understanding of them or else the Christian faith would have died out centuries ago.
So I go on in my way to talk about "Christian morals".
No, I will resist attempts to dumb down the discussion to the lowest denominator - "self improvement".
The morals of the believer should flow out of full identification with the available and living Jesus Christ who is able to blend Himself with us for a new way of living.
PS I can be patient with those who say "I have not experienced that and doubt that it is real." I respect that doubt ... some. But if I can learn so can someone else.
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Originally posted by @fmfYes.
Can you compare and contrast Christian morality, as it pertains to behaviour, conduct and actions, to non-Christian morality, as it pertains to behaviour, conduct and actions?
Atheist and unbelievers can do good things.
Christians can act badly too.
Now you tell me something. And to answer this question it is not required that you believe it to be true. Just take it as well written story telling if you wish.
In an upcoming post YOU tell me why Jesus rebuked His leading disciple, Peter, calling him "Satan" virtually. Again, take it as a fiction if you prefer.
WHY do you think Jesus called Peter "Satan" when Peter ONLY proposed that Jesus avoid the cross of execution ? Wasn't that rather a good thing that Peter proposed?
This requires that you do the unpleasant task of opening a New Testament and reading Matthew 16:22,23. Peter did a good thing - Jesus should not die. Jesus should be preserved from being executed unjustly.
Why did Jesus take this good thing that Peter proposed and make it an occasion to severely rebuke his leading disciple? Analyze that for me.
Originally posted by @sonshipThis doesn't answer my question. Do you have concrete examples of morally sound actions, Christian and non-Christian?
Yes.
Atheist and unbelievers can do good things.
Now you tell me something. And to answer this question it is not required that you believe it to be true. Just take it as well written story telling if you wish.
In an upcoming post YOU tell me why Jesus rebuked His leading disciple, Peter, calling him [b]"Satan" virtually. Again, take it as a fict ...[text shortened]... proposed and make it an occasion to severely rebuke his leading disciple? Analyze that for me.[/b]