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02 Nov 17
Originally posted by @sonshipWhy did a perfect human succumb to temptation?
Christian morals then.
They include a belief that a PERFECT Man existed.
They continue with a belief that a PERFECT Man ... could not ... be destroyed.
A Perfect Person lived on this earth.
A Perfect Person was vindicated to the point that even DEATH itself He overcame.
You start there with Christian morals.
There was a life that lived which was an [b]indestructible life.[/b]
If Adam's perfection was simply as a result of being born free of sin, how is that any different from every baby born today?
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Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeExplain.
Why did a perfect human succumb to temptation?
If Adam's perfection was simply as a result of being born free of sin, how is that any different from every baby born today?
How did Christ succumb to temptation?
Did Jesus Christ succomb to temptation by crying out "My God, My God Why have You forsaken Me?"
You are really scrapping the very bottom of the barrel for accusations against a Perfect Son of God.
To be in perplexity is not succombing to temptation.
To be in an agony and wanting to cry out is not succombing to temptation.
Had He cursed His Father in rage, that would have been for Him to succumb to temptation. To cry out "Why?" when all He had known for eternity is oneness with the Father ... I don't count that as sinning or giving way to unbelief.
"Him who did not know sin He made sin on our behalf that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." (2 Cor. 5:21)
Believe He was made sin for you and I. But He knew no sin - ever. And no guile was ever found in His mouth.
" ... Christ also suffered on your behalf, leaving you a model that you should follow in His steps; Who did no sin, nor was guile found in His mouth." ( 1 Pet. 2:21,22)
In fact Satan was always trying with his demons and evil angels to get Jesus to be unbelieving. Even on the cross they exerted effort to make Him fail to be faithful. The Bible says that the enemies were stripped off, peeled off, stripped away from Him as He obeyed His Father to the uttermost. And openly their defeat was manifested to the world.
" Stripping off the rulers and the authorities, He made a display of them openly, triumphing over them in it." (Col. 2:15)
Even in His crying out at being your sin bearer that you might be justified before God, He triumphed and overcame in His terrible ordeal. He died a victorious death. And He rose in eternal vindication - God approved of His act and seals its efficacy for ever.
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Originally posted by @sonshipCalm down. By 'perfect man' i thought you were referring to Adam. (Before the fall).
Explain.
How did Christ succumb to temptation?
Did Jesus Christ succomb to temptation by crying out [b]"My God, My God Why have You forsaken Me?"
You are really scrapping the very bottom of the barrel for accusations against a Perfect Son of God.
To be in perplexity is not succombing to temptation.
To be in an agony and wanting to cry out is ...[text shortened]... h. And He rose in eternal vindication - God approved of His act and seals its efficacy for ever.[/b]
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Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeGod did not create a sinful man.
Calm down. By 'perfect man' i thought you were referring to Adam. (Before the fall).
Neither did God create a robotic Yes Man who could not but love and obey his Creator.
God created a man in a neutral position yet was rather very good as a creation. This man in a neutral position had two paths before him from which he had the free will to choose one or the other.
Adam - a "very good" creation placed in a neutral staging area between God and His enemy. To choose one source or the other was Adam's freedom to select.
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Originally posted by @apathistEvery sin - paid for, forgotten.
Can we create a sonship forum please?
A genuine real new beginning.
Every sin - not overlooked, not swept under the rug, not shrugged off, not permissively brushed aside by God. But PAID for in full.
In Christ I am not a debtor with my dept sloppily overlooked.
In Christ I am a former debtor with my dept PAID IN FULL.
Even if God decides tomorrow that He doesn't like me, He is bound by His righteous procedure. My debt has been paid on the cross of Jesus Christ.
How can I not want to love Him and live unto Him?
" So that if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation; the old things have passed away; behold, they have become new." (2 Cor. 5:17)
Originally posted by @sonshipSo, the "sinner" ~ if he thinks and believes the kind of stuff you do, and tells himself the stuff you tell us that you believe about yourself and about Jesus - has to take no personal responsibility for his "sins", right? They are "paid for, forgotten". For a Christian, "sins" have no consequence, is that right?
Every sin - paid for, forgotten.
A genuine real new beginning.
Every sin - not overlooked, not swept under the rug, not shrugged off, not permissively brushed aside by God. But PAID for in full.
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Originally posted by @fmfNo, that's not right. No, that's just more of the trashy, twisted, crap, garbage which is usually what you breath out.
So, the "sinner" ~ if he thinks and believes the kind of stuff you do, and tells himself the stuff you tell us that you believe about yourself and about Jesus - has to take no personal responsibility for his "sins", right? They are "paid for, forgotten". For a Christian, "sins" have no consequence, is that right?
Originally posted by @sonshipIt was basically turning the words you typed - verbatim in fact - back at you for you to consider the implications of your claims. And you simply dodge and deflect like this? Your ideology often seems quite brittle.
No, that's not right. No, that's just more of the trashy, twisted, crap, garbage which is usually what you breath out.
FMF: So, the "sinner" ~ if he thinks and believes the kind of stuff you do, and tells himself the stuff you tell us that you believe about yourself and about Jesus - has to take no personal responsibility for his "sins", right? They are "paid for, forgotten". For a Christian, "sins" have no consequence, is that right?You said: "Every sin - paid for, forgotten."
Originally posted by @sonship
No, that's not right.
So, where is the consequence for the "sinner"? In what way does the "sinner" take personal responsibility?
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Originally posted by @fmfI dodge your twisted garbage, true. Why not?
It was basically turning the words you typed - verbatim in fact - back at you for you to consider the implications of your claims. And you simply dodge and deflect like this? Your ideology often seems quite brittle.
I have written on this Forum for years. I write it again now wasted on you as usual.
In the Christian faith there is something that you get and something that you do not get.
You get to be forgiven of all your sins just as if you had never sinned.
You do not get to remain the same kind of person as you were as when you sinned.
Its amazing that you are so generous with the little bit of time that you have here in life.
I mean you probably expect that in a few short decades, it will all be over.
That you are so dedicated to focus your little bit of available time on crafting slippery questions to try to locate faults with Jesus Christ is surprising.
I can understand a Christian spending dedicated time on talking about Jesus.
It is a matter of eternal significance and well worth the time and labor.
For an atheist to use the little bit of human life on talking about Jesus is peculiar to me.
Originally posted by @sonshipSo, I ask again. Please don't dodge it. What is the consequence for the "sinner" if it is "forgiven and forgotten? In what way does the "sinner" take personal responsibility if his "sins" have no consequence?
In the Christian faith there is something that you get and something that you do not get.
You get to be forgiven of all your sins just as if you had never sinned.
Originally posted by @sonshipOriginally posted by @sonship
Its amazing that you are so generous with the little bit of time that you have here in life. I mean you probably expect that in a few short decades, it will all be over. That you are so dedicated to focus your little bit of available time on crafting slippery questions to try to locate faults with Jesus Christ is surprising. I can understand a Christian spending dedicated time on talking about Jesus. It is a matter of eternal significance and well worth the time and labor. For an atheist to use the little bit of human life on talking about Jesus is peculiar to me.
This is a debate and discussion forum sonship and not your own personal Christian web site. The chuntering deflecting personal remarks above come across like you are in the throes of a grand mal seizure that has stricken your vanity.
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03 Nov 17
Originally posted by @fmfNo you don't have an ace of spades for unbelief.
You said: "Every sin - paid for, forgotten."
So, where is the consequence for the "sinner"? In what way does the "sinner" take personal responsibility?
Forgiveness is not an end in itself.
Forgiveness is a procedure on the way to an end - that God may conform saved sinners into sons of God in the image of Christ.
Being forgiven must and can only result in my being conformed to Christ. God has time. God has a lot of time. I can postpone and procrastinate. I cannot avoid or put off forever being conformed to the image of Christ my Savior.
"Because whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He should be the Firstborn among many brothers." Rom 8:29)
He forgives that He might thoroughly transform and conform that the forgiven one would be made like Christ.
It is vain IMO to suspect God ain't too bright and perhaps overlooked something.
I get this impression both by studying the Bible and by personal experience.