Originally posted by @sonshipThis reads like some spam bombing, sonship.
No you don't have an ace of spades for unbelief.
Forgiveness is not an end in itself.
Forgiveness is a procedure on the way to an end - that God may conform saved sinners into sons of God in the image of Christ.
Being forgiven must and can only result in my being conformed to Christ. God has time. God has a lot of time. I can postpone and procrastina ...[text shortened]... rlooked something.
I get this impression both by studying the Bible and by personal experience.
What are the consequences for the "sinner" aside from "forgiveness" and "salvation"?
List them.
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Originally posted by @fmfGet the Christian to be instrospective as if he is preaching himself and not Jesus.
Originally posted by @sonship
[b]Its amazing that you are so generous with the little bit of time that you have here in life. I mean you probably expect that in a few short decades, it will all be over. That you are so dedicated to focus your little bit of available time on crafting slippery questions to try to locate faults with Jesus Christ is surpris ...[text shortened]... ove come across like you are in the throes of a grand mal seizure that has stricken your vanity.
The typical playbook of FMF.
Doesn't work on me.
The more I help people to look at the message - Christ the more desperate you get to focus on the messenger.
All the days I was wandering and searching not one of the Christians I met could I say was perfect. One guy I didn't like because he had a casual girlfriend.
Another had this problem and another was working on that problem.
Some were pretty exemplary. Not all were. It didn't stop me from meeting Jesus.
And though you may think I disqualify the Gospel, it can stand the fact of me being still a work in progress, like everyone of us from Paul on - under the process of conformation to the image of Christ.
Originally posted by @sonshipMore dodging.
Get the Christian to be instrospective as if he is preaching himself and not Jesus.
The typical playbook of FMF.
Doesn't work on me.
The more I help people to look at the message - Christ the more desperate you get to focus on the messenger.
All the days I was wandering and searching not one of the Christians I met could I say was perfect. One guy ...[text shortened]... ss, like everyone of us from Paul on - under the process of conformation to the image of Christ.
On another thread, when asked about Christian men being forgiven even if they do the same things as Bertrand Russell, you responded by saying "David did not escape the disciplinary consequences for his sin."
So, go on then, list "the disciplinary consequences" for a Christian man for getting divorced.
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03 Nov 17
To the issue of personal responsibility - it should be obvious that a great portion of the New Testament is focused on cooperating with Christ's working in the heart of the forgiven one to be sanctified.
Eternity does not begin immediately at the second coming of Christ.
There is an intervening period of 1,000 years called the millennial kingdom.
It is a period of incentive to receive in addition to the gift of grace, the reward of co-reigning with Christ over the earth for one thousand years.
To those unprepared it will be like - let's say, a long summer school, remedial. making up lessons that should have been learned during the church age.
Read Revelation 20 and count the number of times it mentions "thousand years". How many times does the Bible tell us that before the eternal age of a new heaven and a new earth there is preparatory "vestibule" of sorts of 1,000 years ?
God is not incompetent. Judgement BEGINS at the house of God, it says.
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Originally posted by @fmfYour problem is imaginary.
More dodging.
On another thread, when asked about Christian men being forgiven even if they do the same things as Bertrand Russell, you responded by saying "David did not escape the disciplinary consequences for his sin."
So, go on then, list "the disciplinary consequences" for a Christian man for getting divorced.
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03 Nov 17
Originally posted by @fmfI have an peculiar trait not to relish arguing uselessly with the same repeated arguments and debaters perpetually for years.
Your peculiar inability to field questions about the ideology you propagate - like, for example, explaining what "the disciplinary consequences" for a Christian divorcee are - is a real problem, and not an imaginary problem at all.
Justification unto eternal life does not lock God into putting up with abusers of "cheap grace". When Peter says that "judgment begins with the house of God" he means that God gives attention to those who should no better first - His redeemed people.
The age of the millennial kingdom of 1,000 years precedes the age of eternal blessings of the new heaven and new earth.
In the seven letters to the seven churches it is obvious that some of the churches contained problems. Sometimes they were quite serious problems. Each of the letters has a call to HEAR what the Spirit says to the churches. And each of the seven epistles has a promise to those who "overcome" the surrounding problem in that church.
This is a prophetic message which elsewhere is spelled out in plain words.
If there is surrounding degradation in the church the Christian is called to "overcome" through the sufficient grace of Christ.
Also what comes very much into play in Christ's dealing with His own is how they have dealt with others. The merciful will obtain mercy. The judgmental will be examined with the strictness with which they examined others.
C'mon this is all in the Gospel of Matthew the first eight or so chapters.
Like I have never pointed it out before in previous years.
Like I never debated RJHinds on this or Rajk999 on this.
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Originally posted by @fmfI have written on the rewards and disciplines aside from the GIFT of eternal life many many times.
Your peculiar inability to field questions about the ideology you propagate - like, for example, explaining what "the disciplinary consequences" for a Christian divorcee are - is a real problem, and not an imaginary problem at all.
I have debated Rajk999 on this.
I have debated RJHinds on this.
I wrote a thread on Five Kinds of Forgiveness.
Do you understand that repeating explanations to the same objector can get ... let's say ... old? You don't want to know. Why are you examining as if you want to??? you've followed my posts like a hawk. You know I have spoken again and again about the reward or punishment of discipline to the Christian who has the gift of eternal life.
Rajk999 already did your work for you insisting that I was pushing cheap "mouth" worship. How many posts I defended the Gospel on this I cannot say - hundreds of posts have been written on it probably by me.
Why would Paul say that knowing the fear of the Lord he and his co-workers persuaded the Christians to cooperate with Christ's salvation?
But you don't like any "fear" of the Lord. That's a no-no for you atheists.
Second Corinthians 5:11 is just one of many verses showing reason for the eternally forgiven man to consider his ways.
Berean Literal Bible
Therefore knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade men. And we have been made manifest to God, and I hope to have been made manifest in your consciences also.
New American Standard Bible
Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade men, but we are made manifest to God; and I hope that we are made manifest also in your consciences.
The men he is talking about persuading are those for whom the question of eternal redemption has already been solved. They are Christians.
- Consequences for cooperation with the process of sanctification.
But you don't want to know. Why re-ask as if you want to know, want more clarification, more explanation.
You don't want to know.
You want to embrace that God does not exist.
Originally posted by @sonshipLots of words. But none of them seem to be about the supposed disciplinary consequences you mentioned, the personal responsibility, or any other personal consequences.
I have an peculiar trait not to relish arguing uselessly with the same repeated arguments and debaters perpetually for years.
Justification unto eternal life does not lock God into putting up with abusers of "cheap grace". When Peter says that [b]"judgment begins with the house of God" he means that God gives attention to those who should no bette ...[text shortened]... nted it out before in previous years.
Like I never debated RJHinds on this or Rajk999 on this.[/b]
"Disciplinary consequences" are punishments, right? What are they? What are these punishments for believers in Jesus?
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Originally posted by @fmfYes, lots of words.
Lots of words. But none of them seem to be about the supposed disciplinary consequences you mentioned, the personal responsibility, or any other personal consequences.
"Disciplinary consequences" are punishments, right? What are they? What are these punishments for believers in Jesus?
Too bad you are so blind.
Good night.
You have no case.
Originally posted by @sonshipWhat is the punishment for a believer in Christ who - specifically - gets divorced but who does not "confess" it? I am asking you about claims you made, and it also has to do with things you said on the thread on Bertrand Russell.
You know I have spoken again and again about the reward or punishment of discipline to the Christian who has the gift of eternal life.
Originally posted by @sonshipYes, I get that "they are Christians" and that you believe "the question of eternal redemption has already been solved". That is why I am asking you, according to your beliefs, what "discipline" will be visited upon them if they marry, say, 4 times. You say that, for such a Christian, "the question of eternal redemption has already been solved"; if that is so, what disciplinary consequences do they face?
Second Corinthians 5:11 is just one of many verses showing reason for the eternally forgiven man to consider his ways. [...]
The men he is talking about persuading are those for whom the question of eternal redemption has already been solved. They are Christians.