Christian Tolerance

Originally posted by FMF
The materials I uploaded for you are not in connection with "the charity commissions work". Don't know where you got that idea from. Is there some part of the findings of the Royal Commission in Australia [which is what I uploaded for you] that you think vindicates the JW organization's handling of child sex abuse over the last 50 years?

Sorry I have discussed the subject at length elsewhere and my position has not changed, you may make reference to that. I will not provide any more basis for your transparent trolling attempt and suggest that you try to seek leverage for it elsewhere. All future attempts will be ignored.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Sorry I have discussed the subject at length elsewhere and my position has not changed, you may make reference to that. I will not provide any more basis for your transparent trolling attempt and suggest that you try to seek leverage for it elsewhere. All future attempts will be ignored.

You've left a whole raft of points and questions unanswered [and/or dodged by way of deflections and name-calling]. In fact almost every single point put to you, you have studiously evaded. Anyone looking back at the last few pages of our conversation will be able to see this.

Originally posted by FMF
You've left a whole raft of points and questions unanswered [and/or dodged by way of deflections and name-calling]. In fact almost every single point put to you, you have studiously evaded. Anyone looking back at the last few pages of our conversation will be able to see this.

Studiously evaded, why thank you, now go and get your jollies somewhere else, I have fed you quite enough! 😵

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
You posted an article with a claim that the brothers had been instructed for 25 years to withhold information from lawful authorities, where is that evidence.

Here is the claim from the article that you yourself cited.

For more than 25 years, Jehovah’s Witnesses officials have instructed local leaders – known as elders – in all of the religio ...[text shortened]... om? You will of course be conversant with all the legal arguments and why they are taking place.

My case has been made and my reasoning and evidence has been presented. That you choose to see it from a different perspective is hardly surprising. When have you ever accepted or acknowledged criticism of the Watchtower organisation? You are unable, simple as that Robert. It is entertaining though to see how you process such evidence.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
My case has been made and my reasoning and evidence has been presented. That you choose to see it from a different perspective is hardly surprising. When have you ever accepted or acknowledged criticism of the Watchtower organisation? You are unable, simple as that Robert. It is entertaining though to see how you process such evidence.

Evidence Nil - Thank you PK, you were caught citing articles which made the most ludicrous claims and when called out for it you resort to weaselling your way around with this disgraceful its my perspective v your perspective jive talk! Fine but you must be aware that if you are going to cite articles which make baseless or at very least uncorroborated claims, you are onto a hiding 4sure. Anyway wish you and all the ones you love well for the coming year.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Evidence Nil - Thank you PK, you were caught citing articles which made the most ludicrous claims and when called out for it you resort to weaselling your way around with this disgraceful its my perspective v your perspective jive talk! Fine but you must be aware that if you are going to cite articles which make baseless or at very least uncorroborat ...[text shortened]... ou are onto a hiding 4sure. Anyway wish you and all the ones you love well for the coming year.

What are you havering on about you loon? I made the claim that the Watctower had been fined, in two separate court cases in the US, for failing to provide documents pertaining to a historical child sex abuse case. This is a fact. One was for $13.5m and the other for $4000 a day till the Watchtower provides the documents to the court. Do you deny this?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
What are you havering on about you loon? I made the claim that the Watctower had been fined, in two separate court cases in the US, for failing to provide documents pertaining to a historical child sex abuse case. This is a fact. One was for $13.5m and the other for $4000 a day till the Watchtower provides the documents to the court. Do you deny this?

Your article made claims that you could not substantiate, it claimed that for 25 years the brothers had been told to conceal evidence from law enforcement, a vile insinuation! for which neither you or they were able to provide a shred of evidence. You also claimed that we have attempted to prevent the charity commission from investigating how we handle cases of abuse when infact the reality was that it was simply a legal ruling based on a technicality. It was pointed out to you that no one can prevent the charity commission from starting an investigation. Are you denying these demonstrable facts?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Your article made claims that you could not substantiate, it claimed that for 25 years the brothers had been told to conceal evidence from law enforcement, a vile insinuation! for which neither you or they were able to provide a shred of evidence. You also claimed that we have attempted to prevent the charity commission from investigating how we han ...[text shortened]... he charity commission from starting an investigation. Are you denying these demonstrable facts?

Does the article substantiate my claim that the Watchtower has been fined in two seperate court cases in the US for refusing to provide documents to the court pertaining to historical child sex abuse?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Does the article substantiate my claim that the Watchtower has been fined in two seperate court cases in the US for refusing to provide documents to the court pertaining to historical child sex abuse?

Whether it does or does not I cannot say, it did make a clearly vile and unsubstantiated insinuation though, an insinuation for which you and it failed to provide a shred of credible evidence. For me to answer your question in sincerity I would need to familiarise myself with the cases, read copious amounts of court transcripts and I simply have no time or inclination at present.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Whether it does or does not I cannot say, it did make a clearly vile and unsubstantiated insinuation though, an insinuation for which you and it failed to provide a shred of credible evidence. For me to answer your question in sincerity I would need to familiarise myself with the cases, read copious amounts of court transcripts and I simply have no time or inclination at present.

You have no inclination to find out if the Watchtower organisation has refused to hand over documents to US courts pertaining to historical child sex abuse?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
You have no inclination to find out if the Watchtower organisation has refused to hand over documents to US courts pertaining to historical child sex abuse?

No I have no inclination to source court transcripts, read all the testimony and legal arguments and ascertain if anything was withheld and is so, why. Sorry it takes ages, possibly weeks. What I do know however, that despite what your article claimed, is that there has been no direction to elders covering a 25 year period which counselled them to conceal data from law enforcement and that vile insinuation itself is evidence enough that the article that you cited cannot be trusted.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
No I have no inclination to source court transcripts, read all the testimony and legal arguments and ascertain if anything was withheld and is so, why. Sorry it takes ages, possibly weeks. What I do know however, that despite what your article claimed, is that there has been no direction to elders covering a 25 year period which counselled them to ...[text shortened]... at vile insinuation itself is evidence enough that the article that you cited cannot be trusted.

Here's direct evidence taken from a Watchtower memo directing elders to conceal data from 'secular authorities who maybe conducting a criminal investigation'.

“In some cases, the elders will form a judicial committee to handle the alleged wrongdoing that may also constitute a violation of criminal law (e.g., murder, rape, child abuse, fraud, theft, assault). Generally, the elders should not delay the judicial committee process, but strict confidentiality must be maintained to avoid unnecessary entanglement with secular authorities who may be conducting a criminal investigation of the matter"

Section 14 -
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1667064-watchtowernov62014.html

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Here's direct evidence taken from a Watchtower memo directing elders to conceal data from 'secular authorities who maybe conducting a criminal investigation'.

[quote]“In some cases, the elders will form a judicial committee to handle the alleged wrongdoing that may also constitute a violation of criminal law (e.g., murder, rape, child abuse, fraud, th ...[text shortened]... quote]

Section 14 -
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1667064-watchtowernov62014.html

The confidentiality issue may leave the brothers open to prosecution not from law enforcement but the penitent who may sue because they thought their testimony was confidential. This has actually been attempted.

Ministers of religion have always enjoyed penitent privilege (as do lawyers and accountants although in a different way) until recently and to construe this as a deliberate policy of concealment on the part of Jehovah Witnesses is simply to ignore historical precedent and reality.

There is still debate yet whether or not it is lawful for any minister of religion to give information of a penitent up when they have been guaranteed strict confidentiality. This effects not only Jehovahs Witnesses but other minsters of religion that hear confession as well.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
The confidentiality issue may leave the brothers open to prosecution not from law enforcement but the penitent who may sue because they thought their testimony was confidential. This has actually been attempted.

Ministers of religion have always enjoyed penitent privilege (as do lawyers and accountants although in a different way) until recently a ...[text shortened]... effects not only Jehovahs Witnesses but other minsters of religion that hear confession as well.

Sorry, I don't see how what you typed follows from what I posted. Have I missed something?

Originally posted by Eladar
So choosing a poor diet of high carb foods and sitting around doing a low movement job is gluttony.

You have a strange definition of gluttony. How about women with thyroid issues? Gluttons?

People with stress hormone issues? Gluttons?

I think your hatred of fat people has you screwed up in your head. Having one psychological disorder yourself, I can see why you hate others.

For goodness sake Eladar, I don't have 'hatred' for anyone, let alone 'fat' people. I was hoping to have a sensible conversation on the topic, it appears that is beyond you. But in the spirt of festive cheer we'll try once more.

Here's the Oxford Dictionaries definition of gluttony -

[mass noun] Habitual greed or excess in eating:

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/gluttony

If someone continues to eat to excess what will happen? They will come obese. Granted, not all people are obese because they eat too much, there are other factors but they are in reality few and far between. The reality is that the vast majority of people are obese because they have eaten too much food. They have been persistently gluttonous and that is a sin. No different from any other.