Originally posted by @velnsYes, the gospel is the good news, the gospel of Jesus Christ as told by Matthew, Mark,
I’m talking about your first post in this thread where you replied to my OP asking if Christianity would exist without the bible and you said with this:
[b]“People meet the Lord having never read scripture so yes.”
You said “yes” christianity would exist. Suzianne disagrees with you, which is ok. There seems to be mixed views on this so I’m just asking for opinion and discussion.[/b]
Luke, and John is just a written account of the good news of Jesus Christ. It can be
related to others by word of mouth, and the power of God. If someone shares the good
news it then becomes something between them and God.
Originally posted by @velnsThey can meet the Lord without ever having read scripture, but having scripture is like
No that was indeed my term. But KellyJay did say this:
[b]People meet the Lord having never read scripture so yes.
I’m just extemding the premise that if people can “meet the Lord without having read scripture”, then surely when it comes to salvation (meeting the Lord) the bible has been on occiasions, superfluous.[/b]
learning the rules of the road. You can drive without knowing them, but it is better if you
have them down pat by knowing them. You can be told about what is in scripture, and you
can read it for yourself which is better. Having a written account over time with man is
much better than just word of mouth. One requires keeping things correct with each
telling, while writing it down is better if it is done correctly once. Neither is important if the
truth of the story isn't the truth, and it being related properly.
Originally posted by @kellyjayI sense some unacknowledged back peddling here.
They can meet the Lord without ever having read scripture, but having scripture is like
learning the rules of the road. You can drive without knowing them, but it is better if you
have them down pat by knowing them. You can be told about what is in scripture, and you
can read it for yourself which is better. Having a written account over time with man i ...[text shortened]... Neither is important if the
truth of the story isn't the truth, and it being related properly.
Originally posted by @kellyjayBut as you said on page 1, the bible is not necessary for salvation and therefore it could be questioned whether it is required for Christianity at all, agreed?
They can meet the Lord without ever having read scripture, but having scripture is like
learning the rules of the road. You can drive without knowing them, but it is better if you
have them down pat by knowing them. You can be told about what is in scripture, and you
can read it for yourself which is better. Having a written account over time with man i ...[text shortened]... Neither is important if the
truth of the story isn't the truth, and it being related properly.
Originally posted by @kellyjayYour notion that there is a way to "God" that is not via Jesus is something new from you. That hasn't been your stance in the past. Perhaps the tenets of your faith are shifting. Nothing wrong with that. With stuff like this, you can believe whatever you want.
You didn’t read everything I said on the matter if that is your take.
4 edits
Originally posted by @velnsI said people are saved by God not the Bible. You are taking my statements and turning
But as you said on page 1, the bible is not necessary for salvation and therefore it could be questioned whether it is required for Christianity at all, agreed?
them into something I did not say. God saving us, is between us and God, the Bible being
a book isn't part of that. You are taking what I wrote about salvation and suggesting the
Bible isn't required at all. Never suggested that, being not part of salvation which is what
makes a Christian isn't the same thing as having no usefulness at all. God could maintain
Christianity without the Bible because He is God.
Not being necessary for God to act doesn't mean it isn't useful either to fill some needs. I
think it is the best way for us to pick up knowledge found in scripture, without reading it
the word of mouth is great, but who wants to find some guy who knows the story each
time you are ready to hear it when you can open a book and read it for yourself instead.
I drive a little over 2 hours a day going back and forth to work, my car isn't necessary for
the trip, but I'm sure glad I have it.
1 edit
Originally posted by @kellyjayI’m not meaning to twist your words and I apologise if that is how it seems. However on page one you specifically said that god saves people without them having ever read bible.
I said people are saved by God not the Bible. You are taking my statements and turning
them into something I did not say. God saving us, is between us and God, the Bible being
a book isn't part of that. You are taking what I wrote about salvation and suggesting the
Bible isn't required at all. Never suggested that, being not part of salvation which is w ...[text shortened]... going back and forth to work, my car isn't necessary for
the trip, but I'm sure glad I have it.
Let me clarify with you then; even though the bible itself is not absolutely necessary, a person must hear the words, the gospel contained in it about Jesus in order for them to be saved and Christianity to be propagated?
Or is it possible for a person to be saved having never even heard about Jesus but just by God’s spirit working on them and then being obedient to it...? Or something like that.
Originally posted by @kellyjayYou are being dishonest. In answer to the question of whether there can be Christianity without the Bible, you said "yes", and "People meet the Lord having never read scripture". The Bible is the only place where the Jesus story is told. And you insist that Jesus is the only way to God. Grow some stones, KellyJay. You misstated your belief and you've got too much pride to just admit it. Instead you are trying to back peddle and attribute your stumble to others' misunderstanding. Can there be Christianity without the Bible? No of course not. The idea that there could be is nonsense. Just man up and acknowledge it.
I said people are saved by God not the Bible. You are taking my statements and turning
them into something I did not say. God saving us, is between us and God, the Bible being
a book isn't part of that. You are taking what I wrote about salvation and suggesting the
Bible isn't required at all. Never suggested that, being not part of salvation which is w ...[text shortened]... going back and forth to work, my car isn't necessary for
the trip, but I'm sure glad I have it.
Originally posted by @velnsSorry I wrote a book!
I’m not meaning to twist your words and I apologise if that is how it seems. However on page one you specifically said that god saves people without them having ever read bible.
Let me clarify with you then; even though the bible itself is not absolutely necessary, a person must hear the words, the gospel contained in it about Jesus in order for them to b ...[text shortened]... t just by God’s spirit working on them and then being obedient to it...? Or something like that.
I'm not back peddling on that either, being saved is getting right with a Holy God, that is
between the Holy God and the sinner. That transaction is a result of God moving in the
sinner's life, the Bible isn't required just God. God saves, heals, leads, guides, creates in
us clean hearts, causes us to be born again, He loves us. It is God who created the
universe and everything in it and maintains it by the power of His Word.
How can anyone believe in something they have never heard of? The truth within the
scriptures speak about God's work to restore us to Himself, because He knew we needed
all the help we could get.
God's Spirit was sent to teach us about Jesus Christ, the importance of that is very clear,
Jesus and others in scripture said quite plainly, those that do not believe in Jesus are
already condemned. This is where we are by default, this is why sharing the good news
is so important, it is the salvation of God that brought to us that actually does cleans us
of our sins.
Without God's salvation we are left on our own, standing in our own righteousness. We
will all give an account before God, our conscience will either excuse actions we have
done or accuse us. So there are things we don't have to worry about, but the scary thing
is it only takes one sin to make one a sinner, and no one I know lives a perfect life. There
are so many things we all regret we have done, some we are truly ashamed of, these too
will be revealed on judgment day.
Romans 2:14-16 English Standard Version (ESV)
14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they
are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the
work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and
their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16 on that day when, according to
my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
Romans 10:14
How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to
believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without
someone preaching?
John 3
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is
condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the
darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does
wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be
exposed. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly
seen that his works have been carried out in God.”