Christs parables

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
from the wisdom of man, you dont think Solomon was inspired?

oh dear another blatant lie needs to be exposed to the light of scripture,

(2 Timothy 3:16, 17) [b]All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully compet ...[text shortened]... word of God, care to make it three, so that the full extent of your lies may be made manifest?[/b]

He was also inspired by God to state that these were the words of the teacher, not the words of God.

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
He was also inspired by God to state that these were [b]the words of the teacher, not the words of God.

The Instructor[/b]

Christ was also termed a teacher, Rabboni, are you saying that his words are also likewise not from God, no well, stop slithering like a snake and accept the fact that the dead are not conscious, as is written in Gods word the Bible, by Solomon, who was inspired, as Paul states, by God to write those words. Whats up, your pagan doctrines not holding up to the light of truth? no wonder for they are extra Biblical.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Christ was also termed a teacher, Rabboni, are you saying that his words are also likewise not from God, no well, stop slithering like a snake and accept the fact that the dead are not conscious, as is written in Gods word the Bible, by Solomon, who was inspired, as Paul states, by God to write those words. Whats up, your pagan doctrines not holding up to the light of truth? no wonder for they are extra Biblical.

Does the following sound like something Jesus would say?

“Meaningless! Meaningless!”
says the Teacher.
“Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless."

Do you believe it? If so, why do you go door to door, if it is meaningless?

The Instructor

Hell = Hades. Hades = Hell. It is a biblical word.

More subterfuge and downright fabrication,

In Luke 16:21 in my Recovery Version it says " ... and the rich also died and was buried. And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment ... "

Answer please:

1.) Where was the rich man when " he lifted up his eyes" ?

2.) Does this verse mean that his deceased corpse " lifted up his eyes " while lying decomposing in the grave ?

"And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment"

Where are the two or more word groups which are pagan in their source:

"And the beggar died, and he was carried away by the angels into Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment ..." ?

Are the words "being in torment" inserted into the text by non-Christian pagan editors ? If so which MSS would you point to with its agreed upon date, to prove that "being in torment" was added latter and is not part of the original Greek text ?

I am not asking you about the vernacular usage of hell or hades in common street language, ie. "Oh, just go to hell !" Neither am I asking about some sermon you may have heard on, say, Oliver Green's Gospel Hour. I am asking about the Greek text. Where are the words of non-Christian pagan source which were latter insertions in this passage ?

The Ten Occurrences of Hades

“Hades,” perhaps meaning “the unseen place,” occurs ten times in the New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures, namely, in Mt 11:23; 16:18; Lu 10:15; 16:23; Ac 2:27, 31; Re 1:18; 6:8; 20:13, 14.

3.) Are you saying that an "unseen place" could not be a place where the rich man "lifted up his eyes, being in torment"?

4.) Are you saying that it could not be that in an "unseen place" the rich man could say " ... have mercy on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in anguish in this flame" ?

Is it that no "unseen place" could ever have this being said by anyone ?

5.) Are you saying that Jesus is unrighteously fabricating a lie about something impossible in order to teach on behalf of His Father ? If no such thing could ever happen then it would be unrighteous for Jesus to teach that such a thing happened. That is that some rich man lifted up his eyes in Hades being in torment and actually said "I am in anguish in this flame".

6.) Was Jesus fooled by pagan religious corruptions ?

In Ac 2:27, Peter’s quotation of Ps 16:10 shows Hades is the equivalent of Sheol and is applied to the common grave of mankind (in contrast with the Greek word taphos, an individual grave)

7.) In Acts 2:27 where Peter says "Because you will not abandon my soul in Hades" how can a soul be abandoned in Hades if the soul is non-existent after death ?

8.) How can the soul be abandoned in Hades if Hades only means the physical grave and nothing ever else ?

9.) When the Bible says :

Therefore Sheol has enlarged its throat and opened its mouth without measure; And Jerusalem's splendor, her multitude, her din of revelry and the jubilant within her, descend into it. (Isaiah 5:14)

does this mean a physical grave got wider by so many feet and deeper by so many feet in the ground ? Do you see a grave site growing in size in the ground here ?

In the inspired Scriptures these words are associated with death and the dead, not with life and the living. (Re 20:13) In themselves the words “Sheol” and “Hades” contain no thought or hint of pleasure or pain.

10.) Then for Jesus to teach the world that a man said in Hades "I am in torment in this flame" is essentially:

a.) Pagan and non-Christian - yes or no ?
b.) Wrong biblically and heterodox - yes or no ?
c.) Unrighteously misrepresentative of God - yes or no?

Originally posted by sonship

Hell = Hades. Hades = Hell. It is a biblical word.

More subterfuge and downright fabrication,

In [b]Luke 16:21 in my Recovery Version it says " ... and the rich also died and was buried. And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment ... "

Answer please:

1.) Where was the rich man when " he lifted up
c.) Unrighteously misrepresentative of God - yes or no?

This is how the Jehovah's Witnesses own New World translation has it:

“Also, the rich man died and was buried. And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, he existing in torments, and he saw Abraham afar off and Lazarus in the bosom [position] with him. So he called and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in anguish in this blazing fire.’ But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you received in full your good things in your lifetime, but Lazarus correspondingly the injurious things. Now, however, he is having comfort here but you are in anguish. And besides all these things, a great chasm has been fixed between us and YOU people, so that those wanting to go over from here to YOU people cannot, neither may people cross over from there to us.’ Then he said, ‘In that event I ask you, father, to send him to the house of my father, for I have five brothers, in order that he may give them a thorough witness, that they also should not get into this place of torment.’ But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to these.’ Then he said, ‘No, indeed, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them they will repent.’ But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead.’”

(Luke 16:21-31 NWT)

http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/luke/16/

Again I had to delete fonts not supported by RHP.

How can they believe in the Watchtower Society over Jesus, when their own Bible translation disagrees with the Watchtower teachings?

The Instructor

Robbie,

no Hell is not just another word for Hades, nor it it a paraphrase, what it is, is a sly and underhanded attempt to impose a pagan and extra biblical doctrine on the pure unadulterated word of God

When you say "SLY" do you understand that you impress me as being "SLY" when you say Luke 12:4,5 has nothing to do with who and who not to fear ?

" ... Do not fear those who kill the body and afterwards have nothing more that they can do. But I will show you whom you should fear: fear Him who, after killing, has authority to cast imto Gehenna; yes, I tell you, fear this One."

Can you see how you come across as "sly" when you say these two sentences have nothing to do with fearing God or nothing to do with whom and who not to fear ?

Do you see why you saying that appears "sly" and even "underhanded" to some of us Bible readers ? You wrote:

The issue has nothing to do with fearing God more than man,

Originally posted by RJHinds
This is how the Jehovah's Witnesses own New World translation has it:

[b]“Also, the rich man died and was buried. And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, he existing in torments, and he saw Abraham afar off and Lazarus in the bosom [position] with him. So he called and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in ...[text shortened]... us, when their own Bible translation disagrees with the Watchtower teachings?

The Instructor

a parable, not literal, go away and learn what that means.

Originally posted by sonship
Robbie,

no Hell is not just another word for Hades, nor it it a paraphrase, what it is, is a sly and underhanded attempt to impose a pagan and extra biblical doctrine on the pure unadulterated word of God

When you say "SLY" do you understand that you impress me as being "SLY" when you say [b]Luke 12:4,5 has nothing to do with ...[text shortened]... te:

The issue has nothing to do with fearing God more than man,

[/b]

i dont care whether i impress you or not, you are teaching extra Biblical doctrine.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i dont care whether i impress you or not, you are teaching extra Biblical doctrine.

The Watchtower Society teach unbiblical doctrine. Take your blinders off so you can see the truth.

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
The Watchtower Society teach unbiblical doctrine. Take your blinders off so you can see the truth.

The Instructor

yawn, spoken like a true sock puppet of Satan.

i dont care whether i impress you or not, you are teaching extra Biblical doctrine.

Which words are extra biblical here ?

Matthew 25:41 - "Then He will say also to those on the left, Go away from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels ..."

Is "eternal fire" there "extra biblical" ?

Matthew 25:46 - "And these shall go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Are the words "eternal punishment" extra biblical there?
How about "eternal life" ?
Is "eternal life" biblical but "eternal punishment" and "eternal fire" extra biblical ?

Where are the extra biblical words here:

Second Thessalonians 1:9 - "They will pay the penalty of eternal destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His strength."

Are the words "the penalty of eternal destruction" the extra biblical words there ?

Verse 7,8 say - "... the Lord Jesus Christ from heaven with the angels of His power, in flaming fire, rendering vengeance to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Is the phrase "in flaming fire" extra biblical ?
Is the phrase "rendering vengeance" extra biblical ?

Revelation 14:11 - "And the smoke of their tormenting goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

Please identify the "extra biblical" words in that verse.
Is the phrase "tormenting goes up forever and ever" extra biblical words Robbie ?
Are the words " they have no rest day and night " extra biblical words ?

Revelation 20:14 - "And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire."

Where are the extra biblical words in verse 14 ?
Is the phrase "the lake of fire" the extra biblical words there ?

Revelation 20:15 - "And if anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire."

Exactly which words in this verse are your "extra biblical" words ?

Are your extra biblical words located in this passage ?

Revelation 21:8 - "But the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and fornicators and sorcerers and idolaters and all the false, their part shall be in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

Is the phrase "their part shall be in the lake which burns" your extra biblical words ?

Are the words " burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death" extra biblical words ?

I expect you to specifically point out in these passages the extra biblical words.

Originally posted by sonship

i dont care whether i impress you or not, you are teaching extra Biblical doctrine.

Which [b]words are extra biblical here ?

Matthew 25:41 - "Then He will say also to those on the left, Go away from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels ..."

Is "eternal fire" ther ...[text shortened]... ut in these passages the extra biblical words.[/b]

Hell is an extra biblical word.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Hell is an extra biblical word.

Hell is an extra biblical word.

In vernacular usage the word HELL has often taken on meanings not strictly supported by the Bible.

As I said in another post - strictly speaking if I die before the Lord Jesus comes to transfigure my body I expect to go to hell. Hell is Hades the realm of the dead.

I told you that strictly speaking everybody who dies goes to hell or Hades.

Get that into your head. Now, I asked about which WORDS in the above passages are extra biblical. Your playing the pagan card cannot deal with the pure word of God to extricate from the Bible words indicating the horrendous penalty of God's wrath.

If you cannot show me the extra biblical words then don't criticize me for believing biblical words.
If you accept that those are biblical words then what you are saying is that no one can understand the Bible except accompanied by Jehovah Witnesses publications re-explaining many things.

Isn't that what you are REALLY saying Robbie ?

Originally posted by sonship

Hell is an extra biblical word.

In vernacular usage the word HELL has often taken on meanings not strictly supported by the Bible.

As I said in another post - strictly speaking if I die before the Lord Jesus comes to transfigure my body I expect to go to hell. Hell is Hades the realm of the dead.

I told you that strictly ...[text shortened]... es publications re-explaining many things.

Isn't that what you are REALLY saying Robbie ?

no everybody goes to the grave, the do not go to hell.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no everybody goes to the grave, the do not go to hell.

no everybody goes to the grave, the do not go to hell.

Cremated people really do not go to a grave.
And not everyone goes to a grave.

The Greek language was a rich language. And God chose to have the New Testament in Greek language. He didn't consult with you and I about it. He decided that the New Testament would be written in Greek.

We know that Hades used in the New Testament does not take on the meaning of a god in the sense of the ancient Greek or Roman pantheon.
It did not take on that meaning in the oracles of the New Testament. Though Hades was some god in the ancient pagan pantheon or ancient cosmology it did not have that meaning in the New Testament.

Everybody who dies goes to Hades. And Hades is cast into the lake of fire. We can see what happens in the lake of fire. The Bible describes what happens in the lake of fire.

Whether the exact same thing to the same degree happens to every lost sinner, I do not know. I do know that it appears something of a place to be totally avoided. And thanks to the redemption of Christ we can have assurance that the believer in Christ will not go forever to the lake of fire.

You play the pagan card to the maximum. But it does not do for you what you want because the Bible itself includes words plenty clear enough about eternal punishment.

(I appreciated the post that someone did reminding us that Hades was the name of a god in the ancient (Greek?) pantheon. I think that was a helpful contribution.)

However, it doesn't erase many of the clear BIBLICAL utterances about God's righteous judgment upon those unreconciled and forever unredeemed.