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02 Feb 22
@indonesia-phil saidThe Holy Bible is not “notoriously unreliable” or even “unreliable.” If it were, many educated and learned men wouldn’t be Christians.
Apart from the written word, which is notoriously unreliable, can you give us some examples of evidence for Jesus Christ's resurrection?
As far as evidence for Jesus Christ’s Resurrection, I’ve provided that in this forum more than once before and am not going to keep repeating myself.
If you’re genuinely interested, Google “15 Logical Reasons to Believe the Resurrection.”
02 Feb 22
@pb1022 saidActual skeletal remains aren't preserved after millions of years. What are preserved are the impressions in rock of skeletons, and in rare cases feathers and so on. From our knowledge of anatomical structures, it's perfectly possible to accurately reconstruct the appearance of the creature being studied. We can't know the colour of its' eyes, but we can know a great deal. The chance of any animal or plant dying in conditions in which it will be fossilized are very small indeed, and the chances of our then finding it are even smaller, so the fossil record is by no means complete, nevertheless as Ghost of a Duke has so eloquently put it, there already exists a wealth of physical evidence for the evolution of species. The search continues, and the study continues, and this is what we call science.
How much of these alleged “transitional fossils” are actual skeletal remains and how much are evolutionists’ conception of what they must have looked like?
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@Indonesia-Phil
"From the standpoint of a documentary historian the New Testament has vastly superior evidence to that of any other book from the ancient world. The following chart will reveal the superior number, dating, and degree of accuracy of the New Testament over other books." Giesler and Nix [A General Introduction to the Bible].
I reproduce the chart as best I can here.
Author- - - - - - Date Written- - - - -- - Earliest Copy - - - - - Number of Copies
Caesar - - - - - - -1st Cent.B.C. ---------- 900 A.D.----------------10
Livy ---------------1st Cent.B.C.----------- ________ ----------------20
Tacitus ------------c. 100 A.D.------------ 1100 A.D.--------------20
Thucydides--------5th Cent. B.C.----------900 A.D.----------------8
Herodotus---------5th Cent. B.C.----------900 A.D. ---------------8
Demosthones------4th Cent B.C.----------1100A.D.--------------200
Homer -------------9th Cent. B.C.-----------------------------------643
New Testament--1 stCent, A,D, (50-100A.D.) 2nd Cent A.D. --5,000
We have more reason to believe the New Testament accurately records what was originally written than for any other ancient document. That doesn't prove its true. That demonstrates that we have more reason to assume it reliably passes down to us what was originally written.
02 Feb 22
@pb1022 saidThe bible is in its' entirety only reliable if you believe it to be so, and educated and learned men (what about women, by the way?) can be just as daft as anyone else.
The Holy Bible is not “notoriously unreliable” or even “unreliable.” If it were, many educated and learned men wouldn’t be Christians.
As far as evidence for Jesus Christ’s Resurrection, I’ve provided that in this forum more than once before and am not going to keep repeating myself.
If you’re genuinely interested, Google “15 Logical Reasons to Believe the Resurrection.”
Go on, just give us one example of actual evidence for Jesus Christ's resurrection.
Logic and belief? Can't you really see the difference?
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@indonesia-phil said<<Go on, just give us one example of actual evidence for Jesus Christ's resurrection.>>
The bible is in its' entirety only reliable if you believe it to be so, and educated and learned men (what about women, by the way?) can be just as daft as anyone else.
Go on, just give us one example of actual evidence for Jesus Christ's resurrection.
Logic and belief? Can't you really see the difference?
I’ve done it before - several times and more than one example.
Did you Google “15 Logical Reasons to Believe the Resurrection?”
03 Feb 22
@pb1022 saidYes, in Indonesia, many fellow Muslims - family and friends, neighbours, colleagues - take a very dim view of it; that's why it more often than not takes a lot of courage to do it.
Muslims converting to Christianity because Muslims consider than to be an apostasy.
03 Feb 22
@pb1022 saidIn Indonesia, as with Muslims converting to Christianity [or Hinduism for that matter], many fellow Christians - family and friends, neighbours, colleagues - take a very dim view of Christians converting to Islam; so that's the reason why it often takes a lot of courage.
Christians converting to Islam is cowardly - not courageous.
03 Feb 22
@pb1022 saidPeople living in communities where your attitude to their homosexuality is prevalent might need quite a bit of courage to come out.
I said homosexuality was “deviant” and agree what two people do in the privacy of their homes and bedrooms is none of my business.But forcing someone to accept homosexuality as normal and something to be endorsed and even celebrated, which is what goes on in the United States, is way out of bounds.
03 Feb 22
@avalanchethecat saidWhat does cowardice have to do with believing something is true, or even false for that matter, on any topic?
Believing in Heaven is cowardly.
Believing that men and women have differences beyond their anatomy is cowardly.
Believing that people loving each other, regardless of their gender is in some way wrong OR your business is cowardly.
Believing in myths and magic is cowardly.
Dismissing the vast body of evidence from various different scientific disciplines i ...[text shortened]... of the theory of evolution simply because it contravenes your belief in myths and magic is cowardly.
What does cowardice have to do with believing that biology, not feelings, personal preferences, or anything else, determines one's sex?
I have no idea why you link myths and magic since a myth by almost everyone definition could still be true.
Dismissing evidence, no one does as near as I can tell. The interpretation of things everyone can dismiss is a mixed bag; cowardice would only be not speaking up when one thinks something is true for fear of ridicule; remaining silent is a coward.
I have a hard time believing you only wanted to insult here, nothing more because nothing you said about taking a stand for what one believes is being a coward.
03 Feb 22
@sonship saidOn another thread, you described agnostic atheism as a "cowardly" philosophical stance to take. Was that because you were grumpy and frustrated and trying a bit too hard to land some little blows, or do you actually think that rejecting your insistence that one must be EITHER an agnostic OR an atheist is caused by a lack of courage?
@FMF
Examples?
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03 Feb 22
@fmf saidUnder sharia law, a Muslim who abandons Islam is subject to execution.
In Indonesia, as with Muslims converting to Christianity [or Hinduism for that matter], many fellow Christians - family and friends, neighbours, colleagues - take a very dim view of Christians converting to Islam; so that's the reason why it often takes a lot of courage.
Christianity has no such penalty for leaving Christianity.
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03 Feb 22
@fmf saidMy attitude toward homosexuality - or heterosexuality for that matter - is keep it in the bedroom. Don’t shove it in people’s faces.
People living in communities where your attitude to their homosexuality is prevalent might need quite a bit of courage to come out.
You don’t live in the United States and have no idea what goes on here.
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03 Feb 22
@fmf saidIt takes a lot of courage because Muslims living in countries that practice sharia law are considered apostates and can lose their heads - literally - for abandoning Islam.
Yes, in Indonesia, many fellow Muslims - family and friends, neighbours, colleagues - take a very dim view of it; that's why it more often than not takes a lot of courage to do it.
Stop trying to draw a false equivalence between Muslims leaving Islam and Christians leaving Christianity.