Spirituality
25 Sep 12
01 Oct 12
To tw:
'inter-dimensional beings' I presume simply means 'of unknown but really really strange origin'
> That is more what I meant. "Dimensions appear to just mean an added reference point - its a fuzzy term. I understand 2d and 3d and possibly 4 dimensional including time. I conceive only one universal spatial dimension, although forms can be shaped within it to seemingly defy Euclidian geometry, due to large scale gravitational forces. Time is a relative mind-oriented measure more than a dimension, but it is a form of reference.
Any other "spooky" so called phenomenon, possibly arise, to me, from a quantum mind-like universal field. It is not 'a mind' but is a mind-like process (interconnectivity, unitary resonances etc.) from quantum level up to physical manifestation, and inclusive of sentient processes in animals and man, all interdependent, like any Buddhist-like person would aver. 🙂
You and Proper Knob make sense and I am detecting some healthy doubts arising, with the increasing evidences and alternative interpretation. I really didn't know how organised the false circle makers were, for whatever reason. Still like to know how they do the layout thing so quickly???
To PK
Thanks for that site, read it. Very interesting. The plot thickens. And you are right about wanting the more exciting interp rather than the mundane one. I will now be looking for sites a bit more objectively. Human suggestability is also a big factor. If one has a predilection for any view then focus tends to fall upon supporting sites and less so on questioning sites.
Thank you gentlemen, I have shifted. Interesting.
But now as to all those UFO sightings, with recorded evidence. They may not come here by whatever means to do nice geometric patterns in wheat (that is a bit odd!), but something is out there! It will take something more to shift me on that one. 🙂
01 Oct 12
Originally posted by TaomanI am yet to see anything particularly strange on the UFO front, but then I am not looking for videos of that nature.
But now as to all those UFO sightings, with recorded evidence. They may not come here by whatever means to do nice geometric patterns in wheat (that is a bit odd!), but something is out there! It will take something more to shift me on that one. 🙂
But again, my first guess for any phenomena is 'man made' simply because it is the most reasonable explanation (in my mind).
In fact, if UFO sightings are so common, then why assume that they are of alien origin? Maybe they are intelligent beings that come from our planet but like to keep themselves hidden. I am just saying that to jump from 'I don't know what that is' to 'it must be alien' is an unreasonable step without evidence specifically pointing in that direction. Also that jump is also largely cultural. If such phenomena were sighted in Zambia, many people would say 'witchcraft'. In other countries they might say 'secret government program'. Others might say 'angels'.
I realize that these days 'aliens' is seen as the scientifically acceptable answer but in reality it is not. Current science suggests that if intelligent aliens exist, traveling to our planet would be practically impossible.
01 Oct 12
Originally posted by Taomani tend to think of crop circles as unsolicited art. it doesn't make sense to me that extra terrestrials would do so. if they are trying to tell us something, using a means of communication that is interpreted in a highly subjective manner is not a very effective way of going about it, even more useless than picking individuals with questionable sanity to spread their godly message.
To tw:
'inter-dimensional beings' I presume simply means 'of unknown but really really strange origin'
> That is more what I meant. "Dimensions appear to just mean an added reference point - its a fuzzy term. I understand 2d and 3d and possibly 4 dimensional including time. I conceive only one universal spatial dimension, although forms can be shaped wit ...[text shortened]... ), but something is out there! It will take something more to shift me on that one. 🙂
especially in this age. if they wanted a subtle communication method that will reach the maximum of humanity... well here it is. the internet. i haven't heard any message that sounds distinctly outer worldly from where i'm sitting.
01 Oct 12
2 edits
Originally posted by VoidSpiritYes, but when the message is "we are the message", ie that we need to wake up and unify the planet, then it may be a bit clearer why they dont just show us more obvious messages.
i tend to think of crop circles as unsolicited art. it doesn't make sense to me that extra terrestrials would do so. if they are trying to tell us something, using a means of communication that is interpreted in a highly subjective manner is not a very effective way of going about it, even more useless than picking individuals with questionable sanity t ...[text shortened]... et. i haven't heard any message that sounds distinctly outer worldly from where i'm sitting.
There are plenty of strange other world like phenomenom right here on Earth. When we tap into that we might start to recognize the significance of it all and start raising generations that embrace diversity.
Because white humans cant get along with black humans (as an over simplified example) then they sure as hell are going to be a bit taken aback by a whole different (intelligent) species. And force is totally out of the question.
02 Oct 12
1 edit
Originally posted by twhiteheadMy language is circumspect about the origins the UFO sightings, but that they are unusual, unexplained observations by large number of peoples globally is well supported.
I am yet to see anything particularly strange on the UFO front, but then I am not looking for videos of that nature.
But again, my first guess for any phenomena is 'man made' simply because it is the most reasonable explanation (in my mind).
In fact, if UFO sightings are so common, then why assume that they are of alien origin? Maybe they are intelligen ntelligent aliens exist, traveling to our planet would be practically impossible.
Extra-terrestrial origin cannot be dismissed in view of lack of other explanations. I have decided not to use the word 'alien' anymore, it is too loaded with prejudged perjorative meanings. The questions of distance etc. are legitimate but not finalizing questions.
02 Oct 12
1 edit
Originally posted by VoidSpiritIt does appear very indirect, but there was the possibility, if they were authentic, on which I am now to the serious doubt side, that the provenance was possibly incorporeal, but, I admit that is going very weird. There was also, in the light of the meaningful and attention-getting designs (some now are looking very earthbound), the possibility of gradual preparatory revelation, but it has been going on too long really.
i tend to think of crop circles as unsolicited art. it doesn't make sense to me that extra terrestrials would do so. if they are trying to tell us something, using a means of communication that is interpreted in a highly subjective manner is not a very effective way of going about it, even more useless than picking individuals with questionable sanity t ...[text shortened]... et. i haven't heard any message that sounds distinctly outer worldly from where i'm sitting.
*sigh* the rest is just clever, fine human entertainment, like a magician's illusion.
"How did they do that?"
I want an exciting upgrade. Ok, off to the ufo sites, perhaps more luck there...
[walks off, looking into the sky]
02 Oct 12
Originally posted by TaomanYou are going to have to decide between 'unusual' and 'large numbers of people'. You cant have both.
My language is circumspect about the origins the UFO sightings, but that they are unusual, unexplained observations by large number of peoples globally is well supported.
Extra-terrestrial origin cannot be dismissed in view of lack of other explanations.
Once again I say that terrestrial origins, in my mind, remain the most likely explanation - although you are correct that until a phenomena is explained, just about any explanation 'cannot be dismissed'.
I must point out here that a lack of explanation is not something to be seriously concerned about. Many many strange phenomena are observed, many of which have been labelled UFO, or even 'alien', and the simple explanations have been found (optical effects related to cameras, dust particles, weather balloons, spy planes, deliberate hoax's etc). It seems reasonable to believe that the remaining unexplained phenomena may also have rather trivial explanations.
02 Oct 12
Originally posted by twhitehead"unusual" was meant to refer to the nature of the phenomenon, not the count.
You are going to have to decide between 'unusual' and 'large numbers of people'. You cant have both.
[b]Extra-terrestrial origin cannot be dismissed in view of lack of other explanations.
Once again I say that terrestrial origins, in my mind, remain the most likely explanation - although you are correct that until a phenomena is explained, just ab ...[text shortened]... eve that the remaining unexplained phenomena may also have rather trivial explanations.[/b]
What you say is ok, except the increasing number of recorded sightings, due to more cameras on phones etc.make it pretty hard to constantly explain away with the 'usual' list of supposed causes.
Look up the sighting details of Phoenix event, March 13, 1997. It included thousands of people seeing and reporting it, with numerous photos and some filming of the large object. Reports included stuff like this:
"Among the most reliable witnesses of the craft's movements that first night were two airplane pilots, one retired from an airline, and another from Vietnam, who was also a U. S. Marshall. Though seeing the object at different times and places, both men described a craft of "immense size," measuring up to a mile long.
The Marshall could also see the city lights of Phoenix reflecting from the bottom of the massive object, while it "blocked out the stars."
One of the pilots also videotaped the UFO, but had the tape confiscated in a "men in black" encounter. In a completely separate incident, a group of witnesses had reported a "huge discoid" craft which was "larger than Sun Devil Stadium at Arizona State University."
One of many sources:
http://www.ufocasebook.com/phoenixlights.html
02 Oct 12
Originally posted by karoly aczelwhy is force out of the question?
Yes, but when the message is "we are the message", ie that we need to wake up and unify the planet, then it may be a bit clearer why they dont just show us more obvious messages.
There are plenty of strange other world like phenomenom right here on Earth. When we tap into that we might start to recognize the significance of it all and start raising g ...[text shortened]... en aback by a whole different (intelligent) species. And force is totally out of the question.
02 Oct 12
Originally posted by TaomanAnd my point is that it is a poor description for common place phenomena. What you probably mean is 'unexplained'. Either that or you want to cast the phenomena in a 'special' light - but if the phenomena are common place I don't think it is warranted.
"unusual" was meant to refer to the nature of the phenomenon, not the count.
What you say is ok, except the increasing number of recorded sightings, due to more cameras on phones etc.make it pretty hard to constantly explain away with the 'usual' list of supposed causes.
The increasing number is, as you say, simply a result of the increasing number of recording devices. It doesn't somehow make the phenomena more mysterious nor harder to explain. What you don't mention, but is also a very significant part of the equation is the internet making it much easier to share these phenomena.
In addition to this there is the effect of anonymity that the internet has. In general people are far more willing to speculate, fabricate, etc when protected by the anonymity of the internet.
Look up the sighting details of Phoenix event, March 13, 1997. It included thousands of people seeing and reporting it, with numerous photos and some filming of the large object.
I am not willing to discuss specific events because after much research and discussion, I will convince you that there is a reasonable explanation, then you will simply say 'but what about this other event' and we will start all over again.
All I can say from what you wrote is that all you seem to have is second or third hand reports and a remarkable lack of hard evidence. Did all those witnesses not have camera phones? (OK, I realize that those were largely non-existent back in 1997).
I think a major error you are making is by grouping all unexplained phenomena together you give them greater worth than you should. By labeling them 'UFO's' or 'suspected alien activity' and then clumping all unexplained phenomena there you make it look like all these phenomena are related and have a single explanation - which is definitely not the case. There are definitely many explanations for many of the phenomena that are totally unrelated to each other.
It is a fact that most camera users don't really understand the technology and are easily surprised by various optical effects. If you do a survey of people who first use Google Earth or Google Street view, you would be surprised at the comments made by even well educated people. People frequently mistake various effects caused by image processing etc incorrectly and make some of the wildest conclusions. But the vast number of image processing effects in the satellite imagery is not indicative of aliens and the quantity certainly does not lend extra weight to such a conclusion.
03 Oct 12
1 edit
Originally posted by karoly aczelthat's in interesting concept. but who said there is such a universal law among higher intelligence? and what kind of intelligence would you rate humanity at?
'Universal law' amongst higher intelligences. Their inteference has already been too much, but apparently approved
04 Oct 12
Originally posted by twhiteheadMy major interest is primary evidence, not just opinion. By dismissing any instance of primary evidences on the pretext that other valid or invalid instances arise is not scientific attitude. On the basis of earlier studies you close off future and better evidence by taking an a priori position. You can do that, and all I can do is say "Look!"
And my point is that it is a poor description for common place phenomena. What you probably mean is 'unexplained'. Either that or you want to cast the phenomena in a 'special' light - but if the phenomena are common place I don't think it is warranted.
[b]What you say is ok, except the increasing number of recorded sightings, due to more cameras on pho ...[text shortened]... ens and the quantity certainly does not lend extra weight to such a conclusion.
04 Oct 12
Originally posted by TaomanI am really not sure what you are saying here. What do you mean by 'primary evidences' and in what way do you think I am dismissing them? What 'earlier studies' are you referring to?
My major interest is primary evidence, not just opinion. By dismissing any instance of primary evidences on the pretext that other valid or invalid instances arise is not scientific attitude. On the basis of earlier studies you close off future and better evidence by taking an a priori position. You can do that, and all I can do is say "Look!"
04 Oct 12
1 edit
Originally posted by VoidSpiritWell since the language is changing with our evolution my words will hopefully mean fudge in 25 years but I would say : 1) They are more like guidelines than laws
that's in interesting concept. but who said there is such a universal law among higher intelligence? and what kind of intelligence would you rate humanity at?
2) "higher" intelligence is more about the heart than the head.
Humanity should reach the base intelligence for "evolving" soon. (Morrisey - "How Soon is Now?" 😀 ).
edit: as for who is saying this, it is me.