Dawkins vs Pell

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Bible forbids it. 😲

It reflects culture of two or three thousand years ago, I suppose. Which specific utterance of Jesus gives us reason to think that such gender relations arrangements should be persisted with in the 21st century and should never be seen as anachronistic?

Originally posted by FMF
It reflects culture of two or three thousand years ago, I suppose. Which specific utterance of Jesus gives us reason to think that such gender relations arrangements should be persisted with in the 21st century and should never be seen as anachronistic?

The Bible contains many words, a small percentage of which are the words of the
Christ. These exclusive appeals to Christ's words are a rather weak, although
convenient mechanism for secular liberals to utilise in attempts to introduce all kinds of
issues, when in fact we ourselves have no issues with equality or gender.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
The Bible contains many words, a small percentage of which are the words of the
Christ. These exclusive appeals to Christ's words are a rather weak, although
convenient mechanism for secular liberals to utilise in attempts to introduce all kinds of
issues, when in fact we ourselves have no issues with equality or gender.

Mosaic Law came and went. Slavery came and went. An incredibly austere regime of "crimes" punishable by death came and went. You cling to gender inequality; why would that be? You contend that Christ endorsed [or would have endorsed] subordinate status for women, presumably, and yet you are not willing to quote what he said to make you think he did. To quote Christ would be "weak" you say?

Originally posted by FMF
Mosaic Law came and went. Slavery came and went. An incredibly austere regime of "crimes" punishable by death came and went. You cling to gender inequality; why would that be? You contend that Christ endorsed [or would have endorsed] subordinate status for women, presumably, and yet you are not willing to quote what he said to make you think he did. To quote Christ would be "weak" you say?

No issues facing us.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
... we ourselves have no issues with equality or gender.

If a woman JW left your group, unhappy with the fact that men like you [and some of the women too, presumably] had no issues with institutionalized inequality or gender based discrimination, would you ostracize her?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
No issues facing us.

Can you explain how the bible causes you to think that inequality and discrimination is "not an issue"? It strikes me as a classic example of the often mentioned "cherry picking" and selective use of the anachronism to justify doing something 'according to the book' or not doing something 'according to the book'. Perhaps you can clear up my misconception, if that is indeed what it is?

Originally posted by FMF
If a woman JW left your group, unhappy with the fact that men like you [and some of the women too, presumably] had no issues with institutionalized inequality or gender based discrimination, would you ostracize her?

no, there are no issues facing us with either equality or gender. I have never heard in
my time as a witness, almost 17 years now, of anyone leaving and being ostracised
because of having issues with the Biblical requirements for Elders, as i stated, its not an
issue for us.

Originally posted by FMF
Can you explain how the bible causes you to think that inequality and discrimination is "not an issue"? It strikes me as a classic example of the often mentioned "cherry picking" and selective use of the anachronism to justify doing something 'according to the book' or not doing something 'according to the book'. Perhaps you can clear up my misconception, if that is indeed what it is?

we have no issues with equality or gender, you are the one taking issue, not me.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
we have no issues with equality or gender, you are the one taking issue, not me.

We have talked about JW organisation having a system for deliberating over its policies and interpretations of bible teaching before. If a group of women were to make a theological case for phasing out the kind of gender discrimination your male-led organization practises, would you support them?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no, there are no issues facing us with either equality or gender.

Do you have any issues with the passing into history of Mosaic Law? Do you have any issues with slavery ending? Do you have any issues with the regime of relatively trivial "crimes" that were punishable by death having its day but being overtaken by civilization and cultural progress?

Originally posted by FMF
We have talked about JW organisation having a system for deliberating over its policies and interpretations of bible teaching before. If a group of women were to make a theological case for phasing out the kind of gender discrimination your male-led organization practises, would you support them?

the qualifications for elders are quite clear and cannot be annulled.

Originally posted by FMF
Do you have any issues with the passing into history of Mosaic Law? Do you have any issues with slavery ending? Do you have any issues with the regime of relatively trivial "crimes" that were punishable by death having its day but being overtaken by civilization and cultural progress?

no issues facing.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no issues facing.

Mosaic Law - thing of the past. Slavery - thing of the past. Death penalties for this and that - thing of the past. Gender discrimination - NOT a thing of the past. What do you say to the suggestion that this is "cherry picking"?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
the qualifications for elders are quite clear and cannot be annulled.

Can they be discussed and questioned? Can a panel of JW women, for instance, be commissioned to review the "qualifications for elders", and report back to the membership?

Originally posted by FMF
Can they be discussed and questioned? Can a panel of JW women, for instance, be commissioned to review the "qualifications for elders", and report back to the membership?

No the Bible makes it clear that this is the remit of qualified men, who naturally will
discuss any potential candidates suitability for meeting the requirements.