11 Dec 19
@secondson saidconsciousness isn't the cause of those capacities
I think our consciousnesses gives us the awareness of our capacities to think, of brain functions, but consciousness isn't the cause of those capacities.
If you're saying that our consciousness is the result of brain functions/cognitive capacities, then I agree. Consciousness isn't the cause of those capacities: it's the other way around.
11 Dec 19
@fmf saidSo, then, how would one "define", with the least common denominator, what consciousness is? What does it do or what is it for primarily as a function of what man is?
No, it certainly wouldn't qualify as a "definitive definition" [and the same might be said about my attempts to cobble one together] because "awareness of the finiteness of self" is only one particular aspect of awareness of self; the capacities we have that comprise consciousness are able to get to grips with countless other aspects of self than just "finiteness".
Same goes ...[text shortened]... one can have consciousness without spending any time at all considering "the infinite and eternal".
Does consciousness exists as a component of our material bodies, or could it be a component of an aspect of self not related to physical matter?
11 Dec 19
@fmf saidBut how would you know, without consciousness, that those capacities were functioning?
consciousness isn't the cause of those capacities
If you're saying that our consciousness is the result of brain functions/cognitive capacities, then I agree. Consciousness isn't the cause of those capacities: it's the other way around.
Consciousness must come first, otherwise self awareness wouldn't exist.
11 Dec 19
@secondson saidI think the best stab at it I had on page 1 was:
So, then, how would one "define", with the least common denominator, what consciousness is?
The capacity to access memories and recognize oneself as the witness and perpetrator of the events they record.
11 Dec 19
@secondson saidWhat does consciousness do or what is it for primarily as a function of what man is?
So, then, how would one "define", with the least common denominator, what consciousness is? What does it do or what is it for primarily as a function of what man is?
It facilitates the interactions that comprise the substance of our social/communal lives.
11 Dec 19
@secondson saidThose capacities function, therefore we are able to perceive and analyze our consciousness.
But how would you know, without consciousness, that those capacities were functioning?
11 Dec 19
@secondson saidIf you say "consciousness must come first", that's all well and good, but that isn't really a definition of consciousness though, is it? If you are simply saying, consciousness = self-awareness, so be it.
Consciousness must come first, otherwise self awareness wouldn't exist.
11 Dec 19
@secondson saidI lean towards the former. If you want to argue that consciousness is an aspect of self not related to "physical matter" [by which I take it you mean consciousness is not reliant on biological function] feel free to offer a definition that lays that out.
Does consciousness exists as a component of our material bodies, or could it be a component of an aspect of self not related to physical matter?
11 Dec 19
@fmf saidThat says what consciousness does, not what it is.
I think the best stab at it I had on page 1 was:
The capacity to access memories and recognize oneself as the witness and perpetrator of the events they record.
The title of the thread is "define consciousness". Its definition is what it is, not what it does. Strictly speaking, to my way of thinking.
11 Dec 19
@fmf saidIsn't that what consciousness is? That component of what we are that gives us self awareness of our finite capacities, in contrast to the awareness of the infinite and eternal?
If you say "consciousness must come first", that's all well and good, but that isn't really a definition of consciousness though, is it? If you are simply saying, consciousness = self-awareness, so be it.
11 Dec 19
@fmf saidYou just did.
I lean towards the former. If you want to argue that consciousness is an aspect of self not related to "physical matter" [by which I take it you mean consciousness is not reliant on biological function] feel free to offer a definition that lays that out.
Consciousness is not reliant on biological function. Unfortunately there isn't a definition I'm aware of that would convince you that that is true, except to say you'll have to take it on faith. 🙂
12 Dec 19
@secondson saidThat's right. I was answering this question from you:
Here again you're telling me what it does.
"What does consciousness do or what is it for primarily as a function of what man is?"
So, yes, I was telling you what it does, because you asked me to.