Dinosaurs floating on a boat covering a flooded earth.

@sonhouse said
@KellyJay
But you said those fossils are 60 million years old. You are saying humans were around 60 million years ago?

No, I think not, but if you can produce that quote I would like to see it. I don’t worry about age, it is not a point I argue. I will not deny what I think is true and will speak to it if asked. I don’t think it’s that important, but because I think a young earth is true I will share with those who ask.

@proper-knob said
Right, i'm back and i'm much better thanks.

Let's walk this back. On the one hand we have you and your beliefs that humans lived with dinosaurs, which you claim is a 'truth'. On the other hand we have the scientific field of palaeontology, and other associated scientific fields, which state that the huge body of evidence tells us something completely different.

How ...[text shortened]... o the 'truth', and the countless scientists assumptions are wrong. What did you do that they didn't?

I believe the universe and earth were created along with the stars and the rest of a universe. With this creation story everything is put in place to do what needs done. So all life was fully formed when they were created along with man, this puts man along with all other life.

With respect to the scientists we have a different starting points, and our foundations are different. A limited Materialistic World views restricts possibilities on how things can get done. So, we have different starting places, and recognize different mechanisms for work, one has natural blind unguided processes, the other has everything is done with intent to accomplish a goal.

@kellyjay said
I believe the universe and earth were created along with the stars and the rest of a universe. With this creation story everything is put in place to do what needs done. So all life was fully formed when they were created along with man, this puts man along with all other life.

With respect to the scientists we have a different starting points, and our foundations are dif ...[text shortened]... natural blind unguided processes, the other has everything is done with intent to accomplish a goal.

Here we go again. You keep thinking if life formed without a GODIDIT deal, it HAD to be from random chance BS. It is NOT random and never was. The way the universe was built is what makes life NOT random. The universe as it is right now is compatible with life and that is here in the solar system and a billion light years away into the universe also and a billion years ago and a billion years from now, new life will pop up anywhere there is liquid water, minerals and some form of energy, IR, lightning, geologic heat, whatever, life will find a way and doesn't need a GODDIDIT like the religious set wants to foist onto the world.
And of course have a ball dissing that concept for the next hundred or two hundred years but I think the real story will be figured out by then and after that the religious set will just move the goalpost, going something like, well THAT life can maybe come that way, but HUMANS? FORGET IT. GOD MADE US and in 6 frapping days and that is THAT and we don't give a HOOT what science has proven, we mean what they THINK they have proven.
And all that in spite of what life we find under an ocean on Encaladous ( a small moon) (projecting a couple hundred years into the future, assuming we HAVE a future that can develop spacecraft of the power needed and the technology to drill through 40 miles of ice on a moon of Jupiter or whatever.
If we don't get gagged by climate change or some devastating war we should get that kind of tech in the next 200 years or so.
THAT'S when the goalpost WILL be moved because no matter how much science has advanced, the religious set will dig even further into its ancient religion.
I can imagine a future in which we have 100% proven life comes from a muddy rock hit by lightning or some such but the religious set STILL clinging to its old ways no matter WHAT science uncovers.

@kellyjay said
Well that is the thing, I know what I'm saying I'm not sure about what you are?
Sound familiar?
You have no idea about things you are passing judgment on, isn't logical, or reasonable since in order to say something isn't true you need to have some idea of what is true. Cannot really address your questions when I don't know what you are asking for, or thinking on the topic, you seem to be hiding that.

By your logic and our lack of knowledge of things like Black Holes and Dark Matter it cannot be okay to say that Black Holes are not giant vacuum cleaners or that Dark Matter is created by a giant, drawing in the sky with a black crayon.
After all, you did say it isn't logical, or reasonable, since in order to say something isn't true you need to have some idea of what is true. Fascinating logic you got there.

@caissad4 said
By your logic and our lack of knowledge of things like Black Holes and Dark Matter it cannot be okay to say that Black Holes are not giant vacuum cleaners or that Dark Matter is created by a giant, drawing in the sky with a black crayon.
After all, you did say it isn't logical, or reasonable, since in order to say something isn't true you need to have some idea of what is true. Fascinating logic you got there.

You can say what you want about anything, I'm quite sure you do that with some reasoning in mind, some cause. My point about truth is that the only time our beliefs are true is when they line up with reality as is. What we think about anything can be on what we would call solid evidence, but that doesn't mean it is, so we can be spot on with the math we use to figure things out, but if all or some of our variables are not what we think they are, our conclusions will be proper mathematically, just in error with respect to reality.

@sonhouse said
Here we go again. You keep thinking if life formed without a GODIDIT deal, it HAD to be from random chance BS. It is NOT random and never was. The way the universe was built is what makes life NOT random. The universe as it is right now is compatible with life and that is here in the solar system and a billion light years away into the universe also and a billion years ago a ...[text shortened]... g or some such but the religious set STILL clinging to its old ways no matter WHAT science uncovers.

You are jumping to life forming, we have not established the universe forming yet. You do tend to leave the discussion and jump off topic a lot. Even with life forming you have no idea how it happen, and what we do know about specific information directing work, that type of thing doesn't just happen, and only time it does at least where I'm concern so far is with a mind behind it.

You don't think God did it is required, when you have no reason to believe anything, about anything, or nothing doing it either. Can you even show a possibility to present, show some evidence for any cause, for everything to appear out of nothing, that would be something, but you don't even have that. So far you told a story, and so what? You have nothing to compare anything to so that we can judge one hypothesis over another, yet you dismiss God as if you know what is reasonable when you don't know anything about the causes, the how, what, and so on. Dismissing possible reasons without any grasp of the question isn't wise.

@kellyjay said
My point about truth is that the only time our beliefs are true is when they line up with reality as is.

I think what you mean to say is "truth", according to you, is when your opinions about truth line up with your opinions about reality.

@fmf said
I think what you mean to say is "truth", according to you, is when your opinions about truth line up with your opinions about reality.

And?

@kellyjay said
And?

"AND" that means you have opinions of the origin of life and such but yet you at the same time admit there is a time 60 million years ago where there were in fact dino's and such but at the same time you say we live on a young Earth. You can't have it both ways. If you think Earth is whatever, 6000 years old or so, you can't at the same time say, well dino's lived here 60 million years ago.
How can you conflate both of those concepts in the same mind?

@kellyjay said
With respect to the scientists we have a different starting points, and our foundations are different. A limited Materialistic World views restricts possibilities on how things can get done.

I’ll get back to you on this for a more detailed response later. But what we have here in essence is the - ‘Get Out of Jail Free’ - Magic God Card. When logic, reasoning and the evidence doesn’t get us to the desired place we can play this card and end up wherever we want.

@proper-knob said
I’ll get back to you n this for a more detailed response later. But what we have here in essence is the - ‘Get Out of Jail Free’ - Magic God Card. When logic, reasoning and the evidence doesn’t get us to the desired place we can play this card and end up wherever we want.

Not really I am submitting the only source known to be able to produce informational instructions is a mind. This is not a get out of jail card, or an argument from ignorance!

I can say I believe suggesting high probability due to great time would be in my opinion arguments equal to the get out of jail card.

@sonhouse said
"AND" that means you have opinions of the origin of life and such but yet you at the same time admit there is a time 60 million years ago where there were in fact dino's and such but at the same time you say we live on a young Earth. You can't have it both ways. If you think Earth is whatever, 6000 years old or so, you can't at the same time say, well dino's lived here 60 million years ago.
How can you conflate both of those concepts in the same mind?

I don’t admit to saying I know how old the earth or universe is, what I say is I believe which isn’t saying I know. I think you are confused by making assumptions I clearly don’t believe in.

@kellyjay said
Not really I am submitting the only source known to be able to produce informational instructions is a mind. This is not a get out of jail card, or an argument from ignorance!

I can say I believe suggesting high probability due to great time would be in my opinion arguments equal to the get out of jail card.

What does any of that have to do with humans living with dinosaurs? This is what we’re discussing.

@proper-knob said
What does any of that have to do with humans living with dinosaurs? This is what we’re discussing.

Nothing my bad!

@kellyjay said
No, I think not, but if you can produce that quote I would like to see it. I don’t worry about age, it is not a point I argue. I will not deny what I think is true and will speak to it if asked. I don’t think it’s that important, but because I think a young earth is true I will share with those who ask.

No, it was Sonship who said the 60 mil thing but he was just being sarcastic, like if you believe that I have a great bridge for sale.....