18 Mar 12
Originally posted by Rajk999Give me a break. You have no idea who is or is not saved. None. It doesn't matter how many scriptures you quote, there's no rational basis for the inferences you're attempting to make based on the types of interactions found in a chess website forum. Be rational: the evidence gleaned here cannot be anything but inconclusive. For instance, you have absolutely no idea how jaywill, knightmeister, or myself actually live our lives. This fact alone means your accusations cannot be anything but baseless. Claiming someone is not saved based on a doctrinal difference gleaned from RHP is nonsense. Who do you think you're fooling? Seriously.
You asking one Christian who mistakenly thinks he is saved, regenerated and has the Holy Spirit about another Christian who also mistakenly thinks he is saved, regenerated and has the Holy Spirit, if the other has the Holy Spirit? 😀
18 Mar 12
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999Are you, Jaywill, RJHinds, Knightmeister .. etc like the wind .. ie move like wind, invisible like the wind? NO ? Then - ACCORDING TO CHRIST.. NOT ME ..
Christ said so ..
[quote]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hear ...[text shortened]... washing yourself and listening to those corrupt pastors and read the Bible .. Ms Testosterone ..
Please tell me you don't actually believe that Christians ought to be, literally, invisible like the wind.
I suppose Jesus is an actual rock, too, and God is a fortress, made of stone and mortar...
Don't you think Jesus was intelligent enough to employ metaphor?
18 Mar 12
Originally posted by Rajk999"Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
Christ said so ..
[quote]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hear ...[text shortened]... washing yourself and listening to those corrupt pastors and read the Bible .. Ms Testosterone ..
Is water invisible to you?
You are only partially right. You can not tell who is born of the Spirit by what
you see with your eyes because you only can see the visible water with your eyes.
18 Mar 12
Originally posted by epiphinehasSaved, regenerated and have the Holy Spirit? Does anyone have all that?
Give me a break. You have no idea who is or is not saved. None. It doesn't matter how many scriptures you quote, there's no rational basis for the inferences you're attempting to make based on the types of interactions found in a chess website forum. Be rational: the evidence gleaned here cannot be anything but inconclusive. For instance, you ...[text shortened]... rinal difference gleaned from RHP is nonsense. Who do you think you're fooling? Seriously.
Well you people are far more deluded than I thought.
Christ said the regeneration will take place when he returns.
Matt 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Has Christ returned ?
Not only does NOBODY know who is saved. NOBODY knows if they are saved.
Salvation and eternal life is a hope which we have that when Christ returns he will grant us salvation.
18 Mar 12
1 edit
Originally posted by epiphinehasA spirit is literally like the air or wind. YES that is literal.
[b]Are you, Jaywill, RJHinds, Knightmeister .. etc like the wind .. ie move like wind, invisible like the wind? NO ? Then - ACCORDING TO CHRIST.. NOT ME ..
Please tell me you don't actually believe that Christians ought to be, literally, invisible like the wind.
I suppose Jesus is an actual rock, too, and God is a fortress, made of stone and mortar...
Don't you think Jesus was intelligent enough to employ metaphor?[/b]
Put this statement by Christ ..
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
with this one ..
John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
A Spirit is like the wind that bloweth. You cannot see it or know where it goeth.
So is everyone that is born of the Spirit.
Do you still believe that Jaywill and friends', claim that he is born of the Spirit is correct?
Are you born of the Spirit? Are you like the wind? Or do you have flesh and blood?
You people need to stop deluding yourselves. We are all flesh and blood. We have not a spirit form as yet. Paul said..
1 Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed..
Those found worthy of salvation will be changed into spirit beings, when Christ returns. Not now.
18 Mar 12
Originally posted by RJHindsPlease read the whole passage. Christ is referring to the WIND that blows. NOT WATER.
"Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
Is water invisible to you?
You are only partially right. You can not tell who is born of the Spirit by what
you see with your eyes because you only can see the visible water with your eyes.
18 Mar 12
Originally posted by Rajk999We will also have a body of flesh and bones as Christ did after His resurrection.
A spirit is literally like the air or wind. YES that is literal.
Put this statement by Christ ..
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for [b]a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
with this one ..
[i]John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound ther ...[text shortened]... ose found worthy of salvation will be changed into spirit beings, when Christ returns. Not now.[/b]
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
18 Mar 12
Originally posted by RJHindsNo. I am not ignoring what Christ said. Born of water is Baptism. Thats fine. Christians are generally baptised. Born of the spirit is something elseand Christ explained what that meant.
I did read the whole passage, but unless I am misunderstanding what you said,
you are ignoring what Christ first said about water also being necessary.
Its you that is ignoring what Christ said of being born of the spirit.
18 Mar 12
3 edits
Originally posted by RJHinds
I am not trying to eliminate anything. I am identifying them like the servants
of the master. My words were somewhat of an exaggeration to emphasize the
point that there is not much time left before the harvest. I agreed completely
with his interpretation. However, I am not limited by Christ as being only a
servant, or being only the seed, or being o us with ever increasing speed?
P.S. RHP is not the Christian church. RHP is the world.tHE
P.S. RHP is not the Christian church. RHP is the world.
What does RHP stand for ? I didn't read much of the link in your OP.
Did I miss something ?
I am not trying to eliminate anything.
Then you are not trying to "gather" tares for anything.
So the word "gatherer" was not a part of your role as you meant.
Whew ! I thought we were in for a second Inquisition.
I am identifying them like the servants of the master. My words were somewhat of an exaggeration to emphasize the point that there is not much time left before the harvest.
The Harvest implies that the Christians must attend to their own growth spiritually. It is our maturity as Christians which is the greater priority.
Suppose I can identify every kind of "tare" out there, but I myself am a not fully grown wheat staff ? This will be a problem to me at the Harvest.
As for indentifying tares, it is evident that the master's workers themselves cannot always tell the difference. If they were able to he would have not said -
" ... lest whule collecting the tares, you uproot the wheat along with them." (v.29)
This means that humans cannot always successfully discriminate between true believerss in Christ and false believers in Christ. They should not try to "uproot" them because they may perform the action upon a true wheat, ie. true Christian.
Some "tares" we may identify. And we may warn the wheat not to mingle with those tares. The tares sown by the enemy are for confusion and damage to the wheat. The Christian worker may indeed sometimes warn Christians that they are mixed up with false brothers.
The operative word there is "sometimes".
I agreed completely with his interpretation. However, I am not limited by Christ as being only a servant,
I don't understand this because there is nothing better than being a "servant" of Christ. The word there is well translated "slave". There is nothing better than being the servant or the slave of Christ.
All the serving ones are servants. No one serving Christ is not His servant. I don't understand what you mean about being "only a servant".
Actually we serve Christ best by being taken over fully by Christ. Rather than work we do for Christ firstly it is to allow Christ to work Himself into us.
The servant of Christ serves Christ to people, if possible.
What we serve is a Who. In our help, administration, teaching, evangelism, or whatever else we do unto Him it should be serving Christ to people. We serve people with the Christ within us that we live. They may recieve or reject the One living through us. But we try to serve people with Christ.
That is how ALL the workers for Christ should serve Christ. We should pray in all our labors "Lord Jesus, I only want this person to receive from me Yourself. Lord I am here to serve You to men and women."
Even if you are putting cloths on the backs of people or food and shelter to people, you should be serving Christ to people, in the power of Christ, by Christ.
Paul said of him and his co-workers "For we are a FRAGRANCE of Christ to God in those who are being saved and in those who are perishing." (2 Cor. 2:15)
All the servants, all the workers for Christ, should each be a "fragrance" of Christ. Putting it in the vanacular, the servants of Christ should "stink" with the smell of Christ. This is a spiritual "fragrance". This is an aroma of the living Jesus. Whether they are saved or they perish, they should sense the "fragrance" of Christ.
I would like to write more, but will cut it here on that. The servant of Christ, every servant of Christ has the highest calling to be a "fragrance" of Christ to God and in human beings. You know, it is hard to get away from a fragrance.
or being only the seed, or being only the wheat. Can't I also be used
by Christ as a messenger and worker in the field, who by identifying the tares, make the separating and binding process more clear and easier at the time of harvesting, which is coming upon us with ever increasing speed?
The identifying of false teaching and therefore some false believers, has been useful in church history. But here again, this too must be done with the fragrance of Christ and smell like Christ.
As for the "binding process" I don't see much for the Christian worker to do, depending on what you mean. We do not have to call false Christians together to gather them or bind them. In a free country we cannot bind them in any way.
You may pray to "bind" them in the heavens. This means we may pray binding prayers to ask God to restrict their damaging enfluence. But the Christian workers does other physical binding of false Christians.
The best way to "identify" the false is to be the constrast in truth. By far the the best way to expose a counterfeit is to be as genuine in life and nature with Christ. Even towards the end of the age though, absolute discrimination can only be the operation of the angels of God.
Remember in Exodus. God told Moses to throw down his staff and it would become a live serpent. Incredibly, Pharoah said "No big deal." He called some of his magicians and they were amazingly able to do the same thing by their deep Satanic art of miracles. Up to a certain point Pharoah's magicians were able to imitate Moses (Exodus 7:8-14). Eventually they could not.
But for a season the world with its practicioners will do the same things that the Christian worker does. The modern day Pharoah will boast that he can do everything the same as any Christian can do. So what's the difference?
This was a lesson for us. So the imitation of the enemy of God is often too subtle to detect. I think this keeps us dependent and trusting on God and not on our own wisdom.
But that we, the Christians, as wheat, must tend to our growth and to the growth of one another is paramount. Paul said we are God's farm -
"For we [apostles] are God's fellow workers; you [church] are God's cultivated land [or farm], God's building." (1 Cor. 3:9)
And the growth that is taking place on God's farm must be the growing of Christ the divine seed within the believers. The apostles plant and water. God only gives the growth of the divine life in man:
"I planted, Apollos watered, but God caused the growth. So then neither is he who plants anything nor he who waters, but God who causes the growth." (vs. 6,7)
19 Mar 12
Originally posted by jaywillRHP stands for RedHotPawn.com which I identify as the world in my example ofP.S. RHP is not the Christian church. RHP is the world.
What does RHP stand for ? I didn't read much of the link in your OP.
Did I miss something ?
I am not trying to eliminate anything.
Then you are not trying to "gather" tares for anything.
So the word "gatherer" was not a part of your role as you ...[text shortened]... ho causes the growth." (vs. 6,7) [/b]
the metaphor of the Parable of the Tares.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Tares
Christ does not mention the church as representing anything in this parable.
But I suppose you could identify the servants as the true church of believers.
The man who sows good = son of man (Christ)
The enemy who sows bad seed = the devil
The good seed that produces wheat with grain = sons of the kingdom
The bad seed that produces weeds or tares = sons of the evil one
The reapers who gather the wheat and the tares = the angels
Tne harvest = the end of the age.
The servants or slaves of the master (the man) = unidentified.
These servants or slaves apparently the ones who work in the masters field and
identify that there are weeds (tares) in the man's field. They also have the
ability to root up and gather the weeds (tares), but they are told to wait until
the harvest.
I believe the servants and slaves are those messengers of Christ that preach
the good news of the kingdom to the nations of the world.
In my metaphor RHP.COM is the world.
I believe I am one of those servants and slaves that identify the weeds (tares).
I also believe I will be one of the sons of the kingdom.
Even though I would like to think I am one of the reapers, that is an
exaggeration of my role in the work of the kingdom. I believe I am in error
and do no reaping at all.
Originally posted by galveston75I am disappointed, but my fellow Christian brother has made me realize that
Oh you do? What exactly are you reaping?
being a reaper in Christ's kingdom is not part of my role. I must be content
to being a servant, who helps identify the weeds (tares) growing in the world
to the master.
P.S. Be thankful to Christ that I am not the Grim Reaper. 😏