13 Feb 15
1 edit
Sonship and I have been discussing the Gap Theory on another thread that deals with an imaginary gap of millions or even billions of years between verse one of Genesis and verse two. Here is a repeat of my last post on that thread. Perhaps you can learn something from it:
--- I am sure Satan would be happy to add billions or millions of years between the first two verses of Genesis, but it simply is not there. There is nothing to indicate that the earth is anything but vacant (empty - void) and unfinished (without form) and covered with water. Then the spirit of God moved over the water and began forming it into a place that could be inhabited by living creatures.
God did not pass any kind of Judgment on the earth until after the sin of man.
Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life. "Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field; By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return."
(Genesis 3:17-19 NASB)
But Satan wishes to deceive the very elect into believing otherwise and to believe his lie (the lie).
Arthur C. Custance has been deceived by his education in anthropology to believe in millions of years of pre-historic times; and he ever warns us of his possible goal by saying again in his introduction the follow words:
I must repeat something which I said earlier, namely, that the question of whether Genesis, Chapter one, can be squared with modern geological theory is of secondary importance.
Of primary importance for Satan is to deceive you in to believing a lie.
You have already seen how the Septuagint version that was translated from the Hebrew to Greek during the time the Greeks were controlling the Jews is translated into English. That Greek translation was done by 70 Jews and is NOT just one person's opinion.
The title and its Roman numeral acronym LXX refer to the legendary seventy Jewish scholars who completed the translation as early as the late 2nd century BCE. As the primary Greek translation of the Old Testament, it is also called the Greek Old Testament. This translation is quoted in the New Testament, particularly in the Pauline epistles, and also by the Apostolic Fathers and later Greek Church Fathers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint
I have indicated in my first paragraph how I believe the King James Version accurately compares with the Greek Septuagint version by using different words having the same meaning which are called synonyms. So let us reason this out.
Looking up the word "VOID" in my Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, I see the first meaning of "VOID" is 1. containing nothing; empty; and 2. unoccupied; vacant.-- Syn. See EMPTY.
Then looking up the word "FORM" I see 1. The shape and stucture of anything; figure. 2.a. A body, esp. of a human being. b Archaic. Pleasing external appearance; beauty. Syn. See MAKE.
The KJV says "WITHOUT FORM AND VOID" which compares very well with "UNSIGHTLY AND UNFINISHED" of the SEPTUAGINT when one takes the archaic definiton of "FORM" and the synonym "MAKE" to mean "NOT MADE INTO A PLEASING APPEARANCE" because it is unfinished.
If we look up the Hebrew words used in the Strong's Concordance we see that the first word translated "without form" is 8414 TOHUW and gives several meanings and among those are: empty place, without form, and nothing. And the second word translated "void" is 922 bohuw from an unused root (mean. to be empty) -- emptiness, void.
From the above analysis, I see no need to makeup any gap of time to place between the first two verses of Genesis. It makes perfect sense without that if one understands the definitions of the words.
13 Feb 15
What we have in the above verses is biological life and soul life, not human life. When these two are combined and God breathes soul life into biological life, man became a living soul, having human life.
As the Psalmist wrote, God says one thing and man hears two. I believe as the Faith has always taught that the soul is united with the body during its earliest formation in the womb, as a rule of thumb. So, the fetus is always a human life except in cases only known by God.
Genesis 2:7 says, “Then the Lord God formed (Hebrew “yatsar” ) man of dust from the ground (biological life) and breathed (Hebrew “naphach” ) into his nostrils the breath of life (neshamah chayyah, soul life); and man became a living being (nephesh chayyah, literally a soul having life or human life).”
Sorry, I don't understand the concept of biological life here as referred to corporeal matter.
13 Feb 15
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsLearning in any realm often requires unlearning; the experience of letting go is uncomfortable but necessary to become informed. The Holy Spirit requires teachability and acceptance of a pastor/teacher's authority on the part of all believers in Christ who are serious students of the Word of God. The alternative is to live out this life clutching familiar security blankets of misinformation, half truths and falsehoods as an immature believer who has not fully acquired the Mind of Christ.
Sonship and I have been discussing the Gap Theory on another thread that deals with an imaginary gap of millions or even billions of years between verse one of Genesis and verse two. Here is a repeat of my last post on that thread. Perhaps you can learn something from it:
--- I am sure Satan would be happy to add billions or millions of years between the fi ...[text shortened]... es of Genesis. It makes perfect sense without that if one understands the definitions of the words.
13 Feb 15
Originally posted by Of Ants and ImpsHas your own pastor/teacher taught the Genesis account of creation from the original language in which it was written?
What we have in the above verses is biological life and soul life, not human life. When these two are combined and God breathes soul life into biological life, man became a living soul, having human life.
As the Psalmist wrote, God says one thing and man hears two. I believe as the Faith has always taught that the soul is united with the bod ...[text shortened]... b]
Sorry, I don't understand the concept of biological life here as referred to corporeal matter.
13 Feb 15
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyIt appears to me that you are uncomfortable with the possibility of the need to unlearn and let go. What say you?
Learning in any realm often requires unlearning; the experience of letting go is uncomfortable but necessary to become informed. The Holy Spirit requires teachability and acceptance of a pastor/teacher's authority on the part of all believers in Christ who are serious students of the Word of God. The alternative is to live out this life clutching famili ...[text shortened]... ion, half truths and falsehoods as an immature believer who has not acquired the Mind of Christ.
Let it go.
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyDoctrine of Creation of Adam and Eve (Genesis 1:26-2:25) August 25, 2011
In our previous study on Creation we saw that there had to be an intelligent, organized Creator of the universe. The same is true of human life. God is the original creator of human life and, as we will see, He continues to create human life. There are four w ...[text shortened]... , 33:4; Ecclesiastes 12:7) (Part 1 of 3)
http://gracebiblechurchwichita.org/?page_id=1579
Doctrine of Creation of Adam and Eve (Genesis 1:26-2:25) August 25, 2011
The Origin of the Soul
There are two traditional Christian views regarding how, where and when the soul originates. These two views are Traducianism and Creationism.
Traducianism teaches that the soul is a product of procreation. Human life is viewed as beginning in the womb at conception. There is a problem with this view, however. If the soul is propagated genetically, this would mean that the soul is material and mortal. The soul of man is said to be immortal, therefore, the problem.
Creationism teaches that the soul is created directly by God and joined to the body. Among those that hold this view, there are varying thoughts on when ensoulment takes place. Some say at conception, some say during the nine months of pregnancy and others say at birth.
Let’s see what God’s Word says about when ensoulment takes place.
First we must consider a few Hebrew words and clarify their meanings. Breath of life in the Hebrew is “neshamah hayyah” and means the spark of life or soul life; “nephesh hayyah” means a living being or human life. “Ruach” in Hebrew is translated “breath” and is a reference to the soul, the breath of life. “Ruach” is also translated “spirit” in some passages and refers to “human life.” The context of the passage gives us the correct use of the word.
Isaiah 57:16 uses “ruach” to refer to human life and “neshamah” to refer to soul life. This and other passages confirm that God is still the One that creates human life. Ecclesiastes 12:7 gives us further insight. This verse tells us that biological life returns to dust and the soul (ruach) returns to God from where it originated. Isaiah 42:5 uses the same words and tells us once again that it is God who gives life. Job 33:4 is also clear that it is God who creates human life by imparting the soul at birth.
The angels rejoiced at the birth of Christ, not at His conception, which should be enough to convince us that human life begins at birth outside the womb. (Luke 2:7-14) However, we will examine other passages to show that human life begins at birth, not at conception nor during pregnancy nor as a result of procreation.
In the Book of Job we see several passages that refer to birth. (Job 1:21, 3:11, 10:19) In all theses verses the preposition “from” (“min” in Hebrew) is used with the noun “womb” (“beten” in Hebrew). The phrase “from the womb” is “mibeten” in Hebrew, a combination of our two words. This is important to note because the primary meaning of “min” is separation. Therefore, “mibeten” literally means separated from or away from the womb.
In Isaiah 44:2, 24 we have “Thus says the Lord who made you and created (yatsar) you from the womb (mibeten)…..” “Yatsar” means to create life from existing material (biological life) away from the womb. (Isaiah 49:1, 5)
If these scriptures are not enough to convince us, certainly Jesus fully understood when human life begins. In John 3 we have a story about Nicodemus, a Pharisee that came to Jesus at night to inquire about salvation. In the process of explaining salvation using the “birth” analogy to Nicodemus, Jesus teaches that human life begins after birth (outside of the womb). Notice that Jesus did not say, “you must be conceived again.” Just as physical birth is the beginning of human life, spiritual birth is the beginning of spiritual life.
God’s Word always teaches that birth, not conception, is the beginning of life. Conception can only produce biological life, but only God can create human life. He does this by imputing soul life to biological life at physical birth. At the second birth (salvation) God imputes His righteousness to human life producing spiritual life. God’s grace is continually operational in the life of the believer from birth to eternity.
Now let’s consider similar words in the Greek of the New Testament, which confirm the fact that human life begins after birth, outside of the womb. When the Scriptures were translated from Hebrew into the Greek Septuagint, the translators used “ek koilia” and “ek gastros” for “out from the womb” and “separated from the womb” in Isaiah 42:2,24, 49:1,5. (The Greek Septuagint is the Greek translation of the Old Testament). The Greek word “ek” is used to represent the Hebrew word “min” and are both prepositions denoting separation. What we have is either “ek koilia” or “ek gastros” that mean the same as “mibeten” – separated from the womb. (Part 2 of 3)
http://gracebiblechurchwichita.org/?page_id=1579
13 Feb 15
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyDoctrine of Creation of Adam and Eve (Genesis 1:26-2:25) August 25, 2011
The Origin of the Soul
There are two traditional Christian views regarding how, where and when the soul originates. These two views are Traducianism and Creationism.
Traducianism teaches that the soul is a product of procreation. Human life is viewed as ...[text shortened]... – separated from the womb. (Part 2 of 3)
http://gracebiblechurchwichita.org/?page_id=1579
Doctrine of Creation of Adam and Eve (Genesis 1:26-2:25) August 25, 2011
Conclusion
God is the creator of our original parents, Adam and Eve. In their cases God created biological life and soul life simultaneously, creating human life. God still creates human life, by creating the soul of mankind and imparting it to biological life at birth. Man is not a product of some evolutionary chain that began with an amoeba. Man did not evolve from monkeys. God created the first human beings and continues to do so.
It should be a great encouragement to each of us as believers in Christ to know that the God of the Universe wants to have a personal relationship with us. The same God that planned, designed and created every living thing is concerned about you and your life. He knows the number of hairs on your head and He knows what you’re experiencing right now. He has also designed a wonderful plan for your life. This plan begins when you accept Christ’s payment for your sin. Afterwards, God’s plan for you is to consistently learn, believe and apply His Word. This is how we learn to execute the Christian Way of Life. (Part 3 of 3)
http://gracebiblechurchwichita.org/?page_id=1579
13 Feb 15
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyPresumably, being an "immature believer" in Christ, as you put it, or a mature one [I take it this is how you'd portray yourself?], makes absolutely no difference to whether one is "saved" or not, right? All believers in Christ join "Christ's Royal Family" and live for eternity, regardless of doctrinal 'maturity', is this your view?
Learning in any realm often requires unlearning; the experience of letting go is uncomfortable but necessary to become informed. The Holy Spirit requires teachability and acceptance of a pastor/teacher's authority on the part of all believers in Christ who are serious students of the Word of God. The alternative is to live out this life clutching famili ...[text shortened]... alf truths and falsehoods as an immature believer who has not fully acquired the Mind of Christ.
13 Feb 15
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyAre there any people in this Spirituality Forum community who you think have "fully acquired the Mind of Christ"?
The alternative is to live out this life clutching familiar security blankets of misinformation, half truths and falsehoods as an immature believer who has not fully acquired the Mind of Christ.
13 Feb 15
Originally posted by FMFI think you'll find nearly all the god squad believe they personally have the correct handle on the christ character. Thats one of the problems of faith based systems, not much consensus due to too much subjectivity.
Are there any people in this Spirituality Forum community who you think have "fully acquired the Mind of Christ"?
13 Feb 15
Spiritual Birth John 3: 3-18 "3 Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; 2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus *said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten [uniquely born] Son of God."
14 Feb 15
2 edits
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby[/b]So to you does this mean that late term abortion of an unborn baby is not murder of the innocent and is okay as a form of birth control?[b]Doctrine of Creation of Adam and Eve(Genesis 1:26-2:25) August 25, 2011
The Origin of the Soul
There are two traditional Christian views regarding how, where and when the soul originates. These two views are Traducianism and Creationism.
Traducianism teaches that the soul is a product of procreation. Human life is viewed ...[text shortened]... parated from the womb. (Part 2 of 3)
http://gracebiblechurchwichita.org/?page_id=1579
14 Feb 15
2 edits
Originally posted by RJHindsHuman life begins at birth, not conception; biological life exists in a fetus [with reflex motility and a format soul] which becomes a living human being when soul/physical life is imparted to the viable fetus by God the Holy Spirit when the fetus emerges from the womb at birth. Abortion's a decision between a patient and her doctor and the state in late term. Though it's an emotionally charged issue, civil disobedience against the practice of abortion is not authorized by the Word of God.
So to you does this mean that late term abortion of an unborn baby is not murder of the innocent and is okay as a form of birth control?