15 Apr 05
2 edits
This is the sort of question that makes me wonder if this whole God-thing I bought into isn't just a giant load of dung. So we have a creator that decides he wants to see how we do in a maze and if we do the right things we get the cheese (heaven) and if we do the wrong thing not only do we not get the cheese we got plunged into some sort of fiery lake where we will burn, but not die, forever.
The only training we received for this little experiment was a book with an old part and a new part.
The old part seems to suggest that this God character is some sort of sadist and kills people off for the strangest of reasons and insists we kill and burn animals in his honor. There is also a story involving God convincing some poor slob to kill his first born son and at the last minute tells the guy it was just a joke, or something. Lame.
The new part is considerably less violent but full of imprecise language and lots of confusing jargon. It was written by many different people (all of them male) who constantly make it difficult to believe they were any more expert on the subject of God than I am.
As if just having to participate in such a farce is not bad enough we are then asked to use this book to guide our decisions which will ultimately determine not only our lives but all of eternity!!!
I have decided that our concept of God has either become so distorted that he started ignoring us out of disgust a long time ago or he is the host of the most twisted game show in the history of the universe. Or we invented him to explain things, like the sun, so we would not have to be scared all the time, if this is the case it is not working very well anymore because I'm damn scared!
TheSkipper
15 Apr 05
Originally posted by TheSkipperI wish you would respect other people's religions and not make fun of God's prophets and messengers. I am sorry but I do get offended, in the same way you would get offended if I made fun of someone you love and respect.
This is the sort of question that makes me wonder if this whole God-thing I bought into isn't just a giant load of dung. So we have a creator that decides he wants to see how we do in a maze and if we do the right things we get the cheese (heaven) and if we do the wrong thing not only do we not get the cheese we got plunged into some sort of fiery lake ...[text shortened]... f this is the case it is not working very well anymore because I'm damn scared!
TheSkipper
God sent many prophets and messengers, and Three Holy Books, for each Holy faith. There are miracles and there are a lot of wisdom in them. God didn't create us then forgot about us. We are here for a reason, and throughout the existence of man, God provided us with guidance.
15 Apr 05
Originally posted by PeachyI'm sorry you took offense. I'm very frustrated with my faith right now and I vented. I did not mean to offend.
I wish you would respect other people's religions and not make fun of God's prophets and messengers. I am sorry but I do get offended, in the same way you would get offended if I made fun of someone you love and respect.
God sent many prophets and messengers, and Three Holy Books, for each Holy faith. There are miracles and there are a lot of wisdom in t ...[text shortened]... We are here for a reason, and throughout the existence of man, God provided us with guidance.
TheSkipper
16 Apr 05
Originally posted by PeachyI think where the offence lies is when people make absolute statements.
I wish you would respect other people's religions and not make fun of God's prophets and messengers. I am sorry but I do get offended, in the same way you would get offended if I made fun of someone you love and respect.
God sent many prophets and messengers, and Three Holy Books, for each Holy faith. There are miracles and there are a lot of wisdom in t ...[text shortened]... We are here for a reason, and throughout the existence of man, God provided us with guidance.
Eg. To say "God exists" implies that those who don't believe God exists are stupid for believing that.
To say "God doesn't exist" implies that those who believe in [a] God are stupid for believing that.
Everyone is offended.
To get around it, we could preface our statements with "I believe God exists" or "I believe that God doesn't exist." But that gets tedius for both the writer and the reader after a while. Couldn't we just assume that our statements are predicated with "I believe" and then get on with the real discussion.
We are only ever offended if we choose to be offended. We have free will so lets use that will not to be offended at what someone else says.
16 Apr 05
Originally posted by Maustrauseri think i have been misunderstood (and please correct me if am wrong) but i wasn't offended for reasons that God exists or not.. I was offended when someone i love and respect like all the prophets and messengers get the micky taken out of them.. respect my religion, and i will respect yours. whether you are a believer or not my respect holds.
I think where the offence lies is when people make absolute statements.
Eg. To say "God exists" implies that those who don't believe God exists are stupid for believing that.
To say "God doesn't exist" implies that those who believe in [a] God are stupid for believing that.
Everyone is offended.
To get around it, we could preface our st ...[text shortened]... ffended. We have free will so lets use that will not to be offended at what someone else says.
believe whatever you will. i would glady take any insult directed to me as an individual, but those who were blessed to be God's choice (in my belief) should be left alone and away from any insults.
say God exists, say God doesn't, what you believe is up to you and I will not challenge your opinion. I won't get offended either.
"To you be your Way, and to me mine" - verse from the Quran
16 Apr 05
Originally posted by Maustrausernot to worry these debates tend to spiral out of hand on most occasions. i get exicted too sometimes and thats why i rather stick with the Word association game in the general forum 🙂
Oh fair enough. I shall do my best not to mock your God or prophet, but you must excuse me when I get excited in these debates.
Cheers
Henry
this forum is a tough topic and opinion clashes are very essentials.. i tend, hpwever to leave it or just read other people's comments as i know my opinions can trigger a lot of heated debates..
saying that.. i normally have them with my friends and stay up all nights trying to see who will "win" the arguement.. then we end up agreeing not to agree.. 😉
18 Apr 05
Originally posted by PeachyAccording to some of the Christians on this site, the ONLY way to heaven is by accepting Jesus Christ into your life. Being a fundamentally "good" person isn't enough. That way lies an eternity in Hell.
The three major Religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam talk about Heaven and Hell. If you believe that these three were written by mankind, then fair enough.
Personally, I believe that this life is just a Test;
Pass the test = heaven
Fail the test = hell
The punishment seems a little over the top to me.
I think your statement makes more sense, but it still feels, well, incomplete, to me.
18 Apr 05
It amazes me to see ppl who think that a God would send somone to hell, God dosnt want anyone to go to hell, I veiw it as 2 spiritual forces, Both are battling for each soul, God CANNOT accept sin, I believe in Saten just as much as I beleive in God, And He is VERY powerful, Its Him that sends ppl to hell, Not God
18 Apr 05
Originally posted by flyUnityAre you suggesting that God, the creator of Heaven and Earth (and Satan, I would assume) does not have the power to defeat Satan? Does not have the power to liberate hell of its pitiful inhabitants and show them mercy and a better place? If God cannot do this perhaps I should be worshiping Satan...no?
It amazes me to see ppl who think that a God would send somone to hell, God dosnt want anyone to go to hell, I veiw it as 2 spiritual forces, Both are battling for each soul, God CANNOT accept sin, I believe in Saten just as much as I beleive in God, And He is VERY powerful, Its Him that sends ppl to hell, Not God
TheSkipper
18 Apr 05
1 edit
Originally posted by TheSkipperSaten will be defeated, God gives everyone the Choice, called "freewill"
Are you suggesting that God, the creator of Heaven and Earth (and Satan, I would assume) does not have the power to defeat Satan? Does not have the power to liberate hell of its pitiful inhabitants and show them mercy and a better place ...[text shortened]... t do this perhaps I should be worshiping Satan...no?
TheSkipper
18 Apr 05
Originally posted by PawnCurryJudaism believe that the Messiah is yet to come - once He does, believe in him and you'll be saved.
According to some of the Christians on this site, the ONLY way to heaven is by accepting Jesus Christ into your life. Being a fundamentally "good" person isn't enough. That way lies an eternity in Hell.
The punishment seems a little over the top to me.
I think your statement makes more sense, but it still feels, well, incomplete, to me.
Christians believe that the Messiah has come as Jesus the son of God - they believe he died and will come back to fight the Anti-Christ and save them.
Muslims believe that the Messiah has come as Jesus the prophet and messenger - he never died but was lifted up to heaven before the Crucifixion. Muslims believe he will come back to fight a magician who will claim that he is God.
I am a Muslim part of my religion is to believe in these three religions; Judaism Christianity and Islam. Many people from each of these will enter Heaven. Many more will not. Believe in God, have true intensions and use God's wisdom in His Books to guide you through to the right path. Do this and you have passed the test, and your reward is Heaven.
The punishment might seem harsh, but can’t you see how merciful God has been to mankind? He has sent many messengers and prophets, He sent three Holy Books to guide us.
How many teachers have you had in school? How many books have you read to pass an exam?
It is not on the same scale, but imagine that you have created a robot, you programmed it, gave it a name, gave it instructions. How would you punish this metal robot that you built with your own hands if it disobey your commands? You can either try to fix it, upload more instructions, swap processors, upload more instructions and commands, etc etc.. but if it keeps on failing.. What would be the ultimate price that robot will pay at the end?
Guessed right.. will be thrown to the rubbish collectors to trash and burn….
18 Apr 05
Originally posted by PeachyWell said
Judaism believe that the Messiah is yet to come - once He does, believe in him and you'll be saved.
Christians believe that the Messiah has come as Jesus the son of God - they believe he died and will come back to fight the Anti-Christ and save them.
Muslims believe that the Messiah has come as Jesus the prophet and messenger - he never died but was lifted ...[text shortened]... pay at the end?
Guessed right.. will be thrown to the rubbish collectors to trash and burn….