-Removed-So which is it Dive. Im not a Christian or Im not a sincere Christian.
Why would a man waste so much time over the last 12 years, saying the same things over and over about the teachings of Christ, supporting the preaching of the teachings of Christ, the way Jesus preached it... if that man did not have a horse in the race. Why would I take all the ridicule of other Christians for so long if there was not something driving me to do it. You are the first to say that what I am saying is making you think. For me that is the only comment in the last 12 years that tells me that someone is listening.
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Originally posted by Rajk999Your response to Dive in your last few posts has been refreshing, and dare i say admirably Christian.
So which is it Dive. Im not a Christian or Im not a sincere Christian.
Why would a man waste so much time over the last 12 years, saying the same things over and over about the teachings of Christ, supporting the preaching of the teachings of Christ, the way Jesus preached it... if that man did not have a horse in the race. Why would I take all the ridi ...[text shortened]... k. For me that is the only comment in the last 12 years that tells me that someone is listening.
Dive's direct speaking is also something to be saluted.
(And yes, i'm aware that complimenting both Dive and yourself in one post is forum thumb suicide).
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeThanks. Forum thumb suicide !! 😀 Dive will get a lot of flak from his fellow Christians as well..
Your response to Dive in your last few posts has been refreshing, and dare i say admirably Christian.
Dive's direct speaking is also something to be saluted.
(And yes, i'm aware that complimenting both Dive and yourself in one post is forum thumb suicide).
Funny how the only support I got [until now] is from atheists, like yourself, FMF, ThinkofOne [not sure if he is a Christian], Karoly. Brings me to another point, [who cares about support] the teachings of Jesus Christ are universal and is supposed to be already embedded in the hearts of all men. Why is it so difficult to accept that an atheist / someone without law, can follow Christ, something the Bible says as well.
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Originally posted by Rajk999Agreed (although FMF is not an atheist).
Thanks. Forum thumb suicide !! 😀 Dive will get a lot of flak from his fellow Christians as well..
Funny how the only support I got [until now] is from atheists, like yourself, FMF, ThinkofOne [not sure if he is a Christian], Karoly. Brings me to another point, [who cares about support] the teachings of Jesus Christ are universal and is supposed to be a ...[text shortened]... cept that an atheist / someone without law, can follow Christ, something the Bible says as well.
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Returning to the subject of realizing you need a spiritual companion -
As one who has believed into Jesus Christ, it is so good to pray from the onset to the Father, that you know that you cannot make it alone without other members of His mystical Body.
It is so good to learn sooner rather than latter, that you need the Lord Himself. And you need the Lord in His Body. You need the vertical relationship with Christ in the heavens. And you need the horizontal relationship with Christ in the other believers.
Here is it a matter of coming together with one or two or more other Christians in a profitable way. That is not in a time wasting way (spiritually). But be gathered into His name with His presence.
" Again, truly I say to you that if two of you are in harmony on earth concerning any matter for which they ask, it will be done for them from My Father who is in the heavens.
For where there are two or three gathered into My name, there I am in their midst." (Matt. 18:19,20)
cont. below
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The above verse is tempting to take in a frivolous manner by the foolish.
IE. "Oh, so if we two Christians agree that I should have a Mercedes Bends tomorrow, the Father will give me it. For Jesus said just be in harmony and ask."
It is not a cheap matter to be together in His name.
Two Christians coming together in the name of their greedy covetousness for material things is not what is meant here.
Together in His name is not a cheap thing. But it is a matter in which He, has the Headship. And the asking has to come out of His will. But to come together to seek first His kingdom and to petition concerning things touching His kingdom, that is powerful.
But my point here is not so much on the power of petition. Rather it is in the strength of companionship in His name, focused on Him, gathering unto Christ, gathering with hearts turned towards Christ.
it is not just adding Christian A to Christians B and C for any old purpose.
We Christians have to learn how to gather together in small groups REALLY in His Person and in His name. We must have His presence and be under His Headship.
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeI have been thinking this over in recent months and I reckon I might perhaps get better self-encapsulation mileage out of the word agnostic.
Agreed (although FMF is not an atheist).
I had my reasons for not surrendering the term "theist" to rote-learner retail religionists but I can scarcely recall what they were. googlefudge had an interesting list of multi-word terms that tracked the gradations from theist to atheist. I should perhaps look at that again.
As for my former Christianity, the huge nails being hammered into its coffin - by the mostly repellent self-proclaimed Christians here - are redundant nails (albeit interesting) as the necessary faith was gone and lost before I started posting regularly on this forum.
Originally posted by divegeester to Rajk999Your single focused insistence on this is interesting in itself, your refusal to discuss the practical outworkings of this is interesting and revealling and your rejection of the swathes of scripture discussing salvation being through faith and not works confirms to me that you are not a Christian. Your motivation for claiming to be one is that if you didn't, then none of the Christians here would give you credence or spend time arguing with you. As a non-Christian presenting your case you have no traction, no skin in the game and therefore your presence he, being the one tick pony that your posting is, is moot.
This kind of analysis has all been aimed at you too ~ the accusation that you are not really a Christian ~ while in your case, your single minded focus/insistence is about most of the Christians here getting the nature of divine justice and punishment wrong.
If I then said this to you...
Your motivation for claiming to be one is that if you didn't, then none of the Christians here would give you credence or spend time arguing with you. As a non-Christian presenting your case you have no traction, no skin in the game and therefore your presence he, being the one tick pony that your posting is, is moot...
...how would you respond to analysis such as this?
Originally posted by divegeester to Rajk999This is quite a charge sheet for someone having a message that is 'follow the commands of Christ, just like the Bible says'.
But your ministry is dead, you offer no hope, no grace no peace, no direction and no love. You are a clanging gong with one note.
...[I] don't follow the teachings of Christ, because we [I] wondered from the narrow way. [...] I am a piece of dirt, a worthless individual sinner and without help in the world. But I will stand here in this forum and proclaim Jesus Christ as my Lord and saviour and through the faith he has provided and his mercy and grace I am saved.
So, perhaps this is why Rajk999's more demanding interpretation of what the Bible teaches is less appealing to you than, say, sonships'?