30 Mar 08
Originally posted by StarrmanWell, this is one reason I didn't use the word "fear", but "dread". What is upsetting is not so much the thought of one's death, but the knowledge (now) that this death is inevitable, and of what will be lost. It can seem like _everything_ will be lost; I think personally the temptation is to fall into a "first-person" way of looking at things (i.e. from my perspective, in some sense, _all_ will end when I die), and the (partial) solution, such as there is such a thing, is to look at things from a "third-person" point of view (I am but one of billions, etc.).
A cessation of experience is not something I can really comprehend. I don't want to die, because I adore being alive, but I don't fear death. As vistesd says pain is something I fear because it's something I can experience and remember and have direct contact with. Death is not, it's just nothingness, there's nothing to it, no content, no beliefs, no ram ...[text shortened]... cations, it's just the absence of life. I don't really know what there would be to fear.
30 Mar 08
Originally posted by dottewellYou are looking at death only from the point of view this life is all
Well, this is one reason I didn't use the word "fear", but "dread". What is upsetting is not so much the thought of one's death, but the knowledge (now) that this death is inevitable, and of what will be lost. It can seem like _everything_ will be lost; I think personally the temptation is to fall into a "first-person" way of looking at things (i.e. from m ...[text shortened]... o look at things from a "third-person" point of view (I am but one of billions, etc.).
there is if you "believe" you lose it all upon your death. The point
of view you should have is you do not know, what may be there,
what may not be. From the perspective of life only happens in this
point in time for us should put all things in perspective that we cannot
take it anything with us. That will create only two ways of looking at
things in my opinion, either get all you can and do all you can no
matter what because it ends for you when you die, or know what you
do affect others and if they matter in the least to you, 'things' are
not that important since with things they end for us all when we die
and life is more precious than things.
If there is more to this life, than just 'this life' what that more is, will
bring a different value to all things.
Kelly
31 Mar 08
Originally posted by KellyJayAm I right that you are convinced that:
You are looking at death only from the point of view this life is all
there is if you "believe" you lose it all upon your death. The point
of view you should have is you do not know, what may be there,
what may not be. From the perspective of life only happens in this
point in time for us should put all things in perspective that we cannot
take it anyt ...[text shortened]... an just 'this life' what that more is, will
bring a different value to all things.
Kelly
1. We do not know whether there is an after life.
2. We do know that we cannot take our worldly goodies into the after life.
Why are you so sure about 2. but remain agnostic about 1?
31 Mar 08
Originally posted by StarrmanBS, you'd be afraid of painless death.
A cessation of experience is not something I can really comprehend. I don't want to die, because I adore being alive, but I don't fear death. As vistesd says pain is something I fear because it's something I can experience and remember and have direct contact with. Death is not, it's just nothingness, there's nothing to it, no content, no beliefs, no ram ...[text shortened]... cations, it's just the absence of life. I don't really know what there would be to fear.
"Oh, but it's not death that I'm afraid, just the end of the joys of life"...
Well, that's what death is.
31 Mar 08
Originally posted by PalynkaIf that's what you believe, good luck to you, but your paraphrase is inaccurate. Fear is not something I can have towards a lack of being, because fear is fundamentally about the consequences of things. The pain, the solitude, the failure, those things don't exist in death. To try and reify 'the nothing' is just the habitualised boogy man stories we get taught by religion and the sloppy social consideration towards death that seems present in the world. Perhaps you still believe in the big bad skeleton with a ascythe story?
BS, you'd be afraid of painless death.
"Oh, but it's not death that I'm afraid, just the end of the joys of life"...
Well, that's what death is.
31 Mar 08
Originally posted by StarrmanDeath isn't a state, it's a transition. You keep describing it as a state so you can attack your own strawman.
If that's what you believe, good luck to you, but your paraphrase is inaccurate. Fear is not something I can have towards a lack of being, because fear is fundamentally about the consequences of things. The pain, the solitude, the failure, those things don't exist in death. To try and reify 'the nothing' is just the habitualised boogy man stories we get ...[text shortened]... esent in the world. Perhaps you still believe in the big bad skeleton with a ascythe story?
To fear a transition is different from fearing the following state. It could be fear of leaving the current state.
31 Mar 08
Originally posted by PalynkaWhat? Like you're half dead, three quarters dead, 99% dead, oh you're fully dead! That's just sloppy, you're alive and then you're dead, there's no transition at all. I don't believe in an afterlife, I'm not going anywhere, or turning into anything, I'm ceasing to exist. Alive, alive, alive, dead. I maintain your view of death is built on movies, religion/culture and what your parents told you when you first asked, time to move on maybe?
Death isn't a state, it's a transition. You keep describing it as a state so you can attack your own strawman.
To fear a transition is different from fearing the following state. It could be fear of leaving the current state.
31 Mar 08
1 edit
Originally posted by StarrmanWrong. Death is just the transition from the state of living and the state of non-living. Obviously there can be no fear in the state of non-living and that's the strawman that you're attacking. It's quite ridiculous, actually.
What? Like you're half dead, three quarters dead, 99% dead, oh you're fully dead! That's just sloppy, you're alive and then you're dead, there's no transition at all. I don't believe in an afterlife, I'm not going anywhere, or turning into anything, I'm ceasing to exist. Alive, alive, alive, dead. I maintain your view of death is built on movies, religion/culture and what your parents told you when you first asked, time to move on maybe?
Death is just the end of life. It's a transition. As long as you fear the end of life, you fear death. Simple.
31 Mar 08
1 edit
Originally posted by PalynkaYou're reifying a big zero, so accusing me of strawmannery is laughable. 'Nothing' has no qualities, your continuing protestation of the fact isn't going to change that. Just agree to differ if you can't absorb the concept, I'm not here for an argument, just to get involved in the discussion. You're wrong, but I won't continue to hold it against you.
Wrong. Death is just the transition from the state of living and the state of non-living. Obviously there can be no fear in the state of non-living and that's the strawman that you're attacking. It's quite ridiculous, actually.
Death is just the end of life. It's a transition. As long as you fear the end of life, you fear death. Simple.
31 Mar 08
Originally posted by StarrmanZero substance.
You're reifying a big zero, so accusing me of strawmannery is laughable. 'Nothing' has no qualities, your continuing protestation of the fact isn't going to change that. Just agree to differ if you can't absorb the concept, I'm not here for an argument, just to get involved in the discussion. You're wrong, but I won't continue to hold it against you.
31 Mar 08
Originally posted by StarrmanSuppose you were planning to go on holiday. Would you fear something preventing you going?
If that's what you believe, good luck to you, but your paraphrase is inaccurate. Fear is not something I can have towards a lack of being, because fear is fundamentally about the consequences of things. The pain, the solitude, the failure, those things don't exist in death. To try and reify 'the nothing' is just the habitualised boogy man stories we get ...[text shortened]... esent in the world. Perhaps you still believe in the big bad skeleton with a ascythe story?
Do you fear that your computer might stop working at any moment?
Yes, I agree, it is the fear of loss not so much the fear of the actual event of death or state thereafter, but it is still correct to say we fear death, when it is the loss of current life or loss of potential future life that is implied, even when said future life is not even an option.