07 Oct 15
Originally posted by Rajk999Perhaps we should 'make sure' we are on the same page with regards to interpretation.
What is your interpretation of these passages?
If you are after the truth in the teachings of Christ and Paul you will also see the other side of the coin which I summarise and paraphrase below:
- that Christ died for the PAST SINS of the world [not all]
- that it is impossible be renewed to repentance some who fall away
- that if you sin wilfully after knowing the truth there is no more sacrifice for sins
- that if you have escaped the pollution of the world through a knowledge of Christ you again become entangled and overcome, then it is better if you have not known the way of truth at all than to know and turn from it.
- that carrying on with sin is putting Christ to shame
Referring to the bolded text that you paraphrased...
I read this as... if a man sins, comes to Jesus and repents, and sins again there is no hope or forgiveness because he used his sacrifice. Is this your interpretation of the bolded text? If not what would it be?
When I say sin, I mean the same sin. Thanks
Originally posted by yoctobyteNo dont read what I wrote. Read the bible reference.
Perhaps we should 'make sure' we are on the same page with regards to interpretation.
[quote]
If you are after the truth in the teachings of Christ and Paul you will also see the other side of the coin which I summarise and paraphrase below:
- that Christ died for the PAST SINS of the world [not all]
- that it is impossible be renewed to repentance s ...[text shortened]... of the bolded text? If not what would it be?
When I say sin, I mean the same sin. Thanks
Here it is :
3. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? (Heb 10:26-29)
07 Oct 15
Originally posted by Rajk999How do you interpret?
No dont read what I wrote. Read the bible reference.
Here it is :
3. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under ...[text shortened]... anctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? (Heb 10:26-29)
Originally posted by yoctobyteAsking to be wash clean of sins again, is like asking Christ to die all over again and that is not going to happen. The Christian then relies on repentance and forgiveness from Christ.
How do you interpret?
The can happen or it may not, as its up to Christ.
So the bottom line for all your questions along these lines is that Christ will judge [like I said so many times].
The trap many in Christianity fall into is that all these passages [and there are at least a dozen of them], are ignored or explained away and a false doctrine takes it place. That false doctrine says that Christ died for ALL the sins, the all sins will therefore will be forgiven. The Bible never says that.
What is your interpretation?
07 Oct 15
Originally posted by Rajk999So you don't believe that Jesus died for all sins?
Asking to be wash clean of sins again, is like asking Christ to die all over again and that is not going to happen. The Christian then relies on repentance and forgiveness from Christ.
The can happen or it may not, as its up to Christ.
So the bottom line for all your questions along these lines is that Christ will judge [like I said so many times].
Th ...[text shortened]... sins will therefore will be forgiven. The Bible never says that.
What is your interpretation?
Originally posted by yoctobyteChrist died for all sins Yes, but it is not a foregone conclusion that Christ death will pay for all the sins of an individual Christian. So for the individual CHristian this is the situation:
So you don't believe that Jesus died for all sins?
- Christ died for their past sins
- They are washed clean at baptism
- they promise to follow and obey Christ and keep away from evil
- if they sin there is no more sacrifice from Christ
- there is only repentance and asking for forgiveness
- there is a limit to the amount of forgiveness that Christ will allow
The above points are clearly stated in the bible.
07 Oct 15
Originally posted by Rajk999Isn't asking for forgiveness and repenting what brings one to the place of wanting to be baptized? This a new life? You seem to use the phrase 'there is only repentance and asking for forgiveness' as if it is second class. Either we are forgiven or we are not, don;t you think? Just trying to understand.
Christ died for all sins Yes, but it is not a foregone conclusion that Christ death will pay for all the sins of an individual Christian. So for the individual CHristian this is the situation:
- Christ died for their past sins
- They are washed clean at baptism
- they promise to follow and obey Christ and keep away from evil
- if they sin there is ...[text shortened]... mount of forgiveness that Christ will allow
The above points are clearly stated in the bible.
07 Oct 15
Originally posted by yoctobyteIt is second class, Yes. Second class to Christ washing one clean.
Isn't asking for forgiveness and repenting what brings one to the place of wanting to be baptized? This a new life? You seem to use the phrase 'there is only repentance and asking for forgiveness' as if it is second class. Either we are forgiven or we are not, don;t you think? Just trying to understand.
You get washed of your sins becuase you initially accepted Christ by baptism.
Therafter the repentance and forgiveness gets old, and cannot continue indefinitely.
07 Oct 15
Originally posted by Rajk999ok, understood.
It is second class, Yes. Second class to Christ washing one clean.
You get washed of your sins becuase you initially accepted Christ by baptism.
Therafter the repentance and forgiveness gets old, and cannot continue indefinitely.
07 Oct 15
Originally posted by Rajk999I think to habitually continue to sin is not good. But I do think that if God's spirit is drawing you back to repentnance from the point of some sin that you may be having trouble getting free from is a good thing, there is hope. When you get so hardened to that sin however to the point that it no longer bothers you when you do it and you don't sense Gods spirit drawing you back to repentance is a bad thing.
Do you think that Christians who were once washed clean if they continue to sin over and over and over, would that please Christ?
I notice you are not giving your opinion on this, rather you just want my opinion.
And no I don't think to continue in sin pleases Christ.
07 Oct 15
Originally posted by yoctobyteOk good. However I think your illustration of a hardened sinner is an example of what Paul refers to as one that will end up in damnation.
I think to habitually continue to sin is not good. But I do think that if God's spirit is drawing you back to repentnance from the point of some sin that you may be having trouble getting free from is a good thing, there is hope. When you get so hardened to that sin however to the point that it no longer bothers you when you do it and you don't sense God ...[text shortened]... ou back to repentance is a bad thing.
And no I don't think to continue in sin pleases Christ.
But the process is complicated and cannot be determined by anyone except Jesus himself.
07 Oct 15
Originally posted by Rajk999There is one sin that I believe (won't) that won't be forgiven by Jesus and that is the sin against the Holy Spirit. It is my belief that the sin against the Holy Spirit will be the rejection of Jesus at the end. Jesus sacrifice is what saves us and to reject it condemns us, there is nothing left.
Ok good. However I think your illustration of a hardened sinner is an example of what Paul refers to as one that will end up in damnation.
But the process is complicated and cannot be determined by anyone except Jesus himself.
I may have this a little off, what do you think?
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08 Oct 15
Rajk's twisted interpretation of the bible....
Baptism cleans a person of all sins but not future sins.
Christ decides who is saved in the end, because there is no more sacrifice for sin.
The bible clearly states that anyone (baptized or not) has sin...I John chapter 1., in fact it says that anyone who claims they have no sin is a liar.
So, since all men sin even after Baptism, Christ will have to find another way to forgive their sins.
This also means that the Crucifixion was in vain, a waste of time and of no value.
If Christ has to find a way to forgive for future sins then Gods plan was wrong.
Why did his Son have to die a horrible death?
The truth is, Jesus's payment on the cross was to forgive sins once for all time. Past, present and future! This is why the Gospel is also called the Good News.
Rajk preaches anything but a morbid, gloomy gospel which is actually bad news.
It makes no sense whatsoever.
Originally posted by checkbaiterYou lack the ability to read and understand simple plain english.
Rajk's twisted interpretation of the bible....
Baptism cleans a person of all sins but not future sins.
Christ decides who is saved in the end, because there is no more sacrifice for sin.
The bible clearly states that anyone (baptized or not) has sin...I John chapter 1., in fact it says that anyone who claims they have no sin is a liar.
So, since a ...[text shortened]... anything but a morbid, gloomy gospel which is actually bad news.
It makes no sense whatsoever.
And what I say is morbid because you want to continue with your worldly sinful lifestyle .. I understand ..