Spirituality
25 Aug 09
26 Aug 09
Originally posted by PsychoPawnThat is right. My burden is released.
Here I am preaching to you how you can receive eternal life. And you trash it.
You are preaching to me about your faith. I didn't trash it. How did I insult you? Is it that I don't take it as the gospel truth?
Look at your browser. Look along the top and around the sides. All kinds of preaching to you is going on.
And I don't ...[text shortened]... ion[/i]
And you've done that so you've fulfilled your contract that your faith requires.
And now I will go and speak to others.
26 Aug 09
Originally posted by buckkyAh! Dont worry old pal.. your ego will soon be phased out.
I am starting to think we go nowhere upon death. No Heaven no Hell. We just evaporate into everything. We become a part of everything, and in so doing we go back to being God. We lose our position in it all. There is no position, but only oneness with it all. Scary stuff to think about. From an ego standpoint it sounds horrible. The loss of self seems like th ...[text shortened]... hat the opposite is true. The longing for more will be gone and completion might be the reality.
Just keep going and keep the nice threads coming. I , for one, really enjoy them 😉
26 Aug 09
Originally posted by buckkyI find it an interesting part of human psychology that sometimes we refuse to accept certain realities however hard they stare us in the face. Almost everyone who starts to doubt the existence of an afterlife still comes up with some other way of looking at it, or leaves open some possibility for something more rather than simply accepting that we will no longer exist. There are many popular solutions such as 'we live on in our children' etc, but they all come down to "I just cant accept that I will cease to exist".
The loss of self seems like the loss of everything, but it might just be that the opposite is true.
26 Aug 09
2 edits
Originally posted by twhiteheadYou have never been dead. It is an unknown realm to you. So you cannot really say that some reality is starring you in the face. You can only say that an assumption about what you expect is starring you in the face.
I find it an interesting part of human psychology that sometimes we refuse to accept certain realities however hard they stare us in the face. Almost everyone who starts to doubt the existence of an afterlife still comes up with some other way of looking at it, or leaves open some possibility for something more rather than simply accepting that we will no ur children' etc, but they all come down to "I just cant accept that I will cease to exist".
Die, come back, tell us that you have been there and there is nothing, then you have ground to say "Accept the reality starring you in the face."
I cannot say "Accept the reality starring you in the face that there is no life on other planets." I don't know that. I haven't been there to verify that. At most I can say that I doubt that there is, if I so doubt. I cannot insist that the reality starring you in the face is that no life is on any other of the possible millions of planets in outer space exist.
I don't worry about "afterlife" because it is not even a term I can find anywhere in the Bible. And my focus is to find God as life Whom I believe I have found in receiving Christ. I do not have the thought that I have to go into the realm of death in order to find God. I have found God already.
I see the term resurrection in Scripture. I do not see "afterlife".
26 Aug 09
Originally posted by jaywillSorry to be pedantic, but 'staring' has only one 'r'. 'Starring' has to do with 'stars.'
You have never been dead. It is an unknown realm to you. So you cannot really say that some reality is starring you in the face. You can only say that an assumption about what you expect is starring you in the face.
Die, come back, tell us that you have been there and there is nothing, then you have ground to say "Accept the reality starring you in the f ...[text shortened]... ready.
I see the term [b]resurrection in Scripture. I do not see "afterlife".[/b]
26 Aug 09
Originally posted by twhiteheadAre you as sure of your belief as the fundamentalist of his ? Neither one of you really know anything about what you speak. It's all speculation don't you see. I have the same speculation about things but I sure don't think I have arrived at the Truth. I actually know nothing about the afterlife, but I do think about it a lot. It's a difficult subject.
I find it an interesting part of human psychology that sometimes we refuse to accept certain realities however hard they stare us in the face. Almost everyone who starts to doubt the existence of an afterlife still comes up with some other way of looking at it, or leaves open some possibility for something more rather than simply accepting that we will no ...[text shortened]... ur children' etc, but they all come down to "I just cant accept that I will cease to exist".
26 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by buckkyIf you know nothing about "after life" may I suggest that there is this man in history --- Jesus of Nazareth.
Are you as sure of your belief as the fundamentalist of his ? Neither one of you really know anything about what you speak. It's all speculation don't you see. I have the same speculation about things but I sure don't think I have arrived at the Truth. I actually know nothing about the afterlife, but I do think about it a lot. It's a difficult subject.
Now one of the things that Jesus is renown for is death and resurrection from the dead. He may know something about your issue of "After life".
You know, someone challenged me lately and said that I could not find a verse in the Bible teaching us that we had to believe in Christ's death. He said it speaks of Christ's death a lot. But as aa focus of Christian belief as an object of our faith, he challenged that the DEATH of Christ is not explicitly taught as an object of faith.
I am checking on him and think he might be right. But he pointed out that the resurrection of Christ is explicitly taught as an object of faith - "Confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead ..."
Anyway, this may not be relevant to your interest.
I did want to say though that I think the one you want to listen to on the subject matter of "After Life" is the One who DIED and LIVED again.
You may respond - "Well I don't know that that happened." Okay, granted you don't know that it really happened. Still, not being sure, I would still recommend that you listen to what He has to say about it.
It could be that you are wrong. And if you want information about Life, Death, and After Life it makes sense to listen to the Person reputed to be an authority of resurrection and life -
"I am the resurrection and the life ..." (John 11:25)
26 Aug 09
Originally posted by jaywillThanks again for your post. You seem to be a very caring individual. You take more time than I would to deal with someone like me. I'm no newcomer to this subject. Most of my life has been trying to find the Truth so to speak. I thought I had foiund it a few times only to be once again dissapointed. I'm sorry, but I have looked at the Christian religion every which way ,and I always come away with a bad taste in my mouth. I envy you in your conviction, but I fear we must be of two different types, and my type must be non fertile ground.
If you know nothing about "after life" may I suggest that there is this man in history --- Jesus of Nazareth.
Now one of the things that Jesus is renown for is [b]death and resurrection from the dead. He may know something about your issue of "After life".
You know, someone challenged me lately and said that I could not find a verse in the Bible ...[text shortened]... ion and life -
"I am the resurrection and the life ..." (John 11:25) [/b]
26 Aug 09
1 edit
Since you seem willing to put up with me, let me give you some tips on my search for the truth. I will try to be brief.
1.) Stop looking at "the Christian religion" and focus your attention on Jesus.
At least ONE TIME, you should read through a Gospel, ie, Luke, or John and focus like laser beam just on Jesus.
If the thought comes "But don't forget what Rev. So and So did across town?" ... reslove that this time you are only focusing on Jesus.
Can you one time, read through a Gospel of the New Testmament with the intention "I ONLY CARE FOR CHRIST?"
2.) For one or two weeks let the FIRST thing you do in the morning be to read the New Testament.
Don't wait until the world has worn you down and you come at night with your tongue hanging out to give whatever is left over to God. Try for a couple of weeks to make the first thing you do each morning, is to spend a little time reading that Gospel, focusing on nothing else but Jesus Christ.
3.) Open you heart. We close our hearts as if we are holding on to something and are afraid of losing it.
Open up with a willingness to be changed, should God want to change you. If you are not willing then at least be willing to be willing. Come to the New Testament with the expectation that God IS and you WILL hear from Him. And have a willingness to be changed.
4.) If something seems to speak more to you than another passage, make a little mark in your Bible. After two weeks look at what you have underlined. Pray about those passages.
Be honest. Ask God why this or that passage seemed to impress you.
Whoever who would come forward to God must believe that He IS, and is a rewarder of those who seek diligently for Him. Don't come expecting nothing. Come open and expecting to be spoken to.
I will stop right here. Thanks for reading up to this point.
27 Aug 09
Originally posted by jaywillYou are incorrect to claim that one must experience something directly in order to know about it - and I am sure you know that. I have never been to Australia, but I know it exists. I have never been to Mars but I know that the only large robots roaming its surface were put there by man. My claim about death is not an 'assumption', it is something that is fairly obvious from the known facts. It is certainly not an 'unknown realm'. As I said, people seem to come up with the most blatantly false 'explanations' just because they refuse to accept what is staring them in the face.
You have never been dead. It is an unknown realm to you. So you cannot really say that some reality is starring you in the face. You can only say that an assumption about what you expect is starring you in the face.
27 Aug 09
Originally posted by buckkyYes, probably.
Are you as sure of your belief as the fundamentalist of his ?
Neither one of you really know anything about what you speak.
Why do you say that? We both claim to have very good knowledge about what we speak. Why do you dismiss it so readily? Could it be your own refusal to accept that one viewpoint is correct?
It's all speculation don't you see.
No it isn't. It is knowledge based on facts.
I have the same speculation about things but I sure don't think I have arrived at the Truth. I actually know nothing about the afterlife, but I do think about it a lot. It's a difficult subject.
Its not difficult at all, you simply don't want to accept the obvious. There is no such thing as an 'afterlife'. No speculation is needed, simply look at the facts.
27 Aug 09
Originally posted by twhiteheadThe jury is still out on the facts of the case.
Yes, probably.
[b]Neither one of you really know anything about what you speak.
Why do you say that? We both claim to have very good knowledge about what we speak. Why do you dismiss it so readily? Could it be your own refusal to accept that one viewpoint is correct?
It's all speculation don't you see.
No it isn't. It is knowledge based ...[text shortened]... is no such thing as an 'afterlife'. No speculation is needed, simply look at the facts.[/b]
27 Aug 09
Originally posted by buckkyNo it isn't. You only wish it was. That is why you went with a strawman rather than a genuine argument ie you tried to pretend it was all mere speculation with no known facts involved when you know perfectly well that there are a large number of well known and indisputable facts surrounding consciousness and physical death.
The jury is still out on the facts of the case.
You may argue that the facts are misinterpreted, you may argue that the conclusions are wrong, but to announce without substantiation that nobody knows anything and that it is all mere speculation clearly shows that you would rather cover your eyes and ears and chant 'see no evil, hear no evil'.
27 Aug 09
Originally posted by twhiteheadI don't think so. Many very intelligent peole around the world believe in an after life. From what I understand about consciousness it is beyond the body. I don't feel that I am the body. My dream state seems as real as the waking state. I think what turns people off about this subjct is outlandish claims from one side or the other. When it comes to spiritual matters it is all speculation unless you are a piece of stone, and only deal with concrete matters. My life is more than what I can hold in my hand.
No it isn't. You only wish it was. That is why you went with a strawman rather than a genuine argument ie you tried to pretend it was all mere speculation with no known facts involved when you know perfectly well that there are a large number of well known and indisputable facts surrounding consciousness and physical death.
You may argue that the facts a ...[text shortened]... y shows that you would rather cover your eyes and ears and chant 'see no evil, hear no evil'.