FAITH - What's the big deal?

Originally posted by Halitose
[b]What should I look for?

Only you could possibly answer that question in truth.[/b]

It's been a great day so far, but very similar to other days. I've been writing a paper on Spinoza and his account of the proper interpretation of Scripture. I've done some laundry and played with my cats. I left the door open in case God wants to stop by, but alas. I don't know why God is playing coy with me, I invited him into my heart and home, but my heart feels as full as it always does, and my home is still undisturbed by any detectable divine presence.

knightmeister, please advise! Should I try waiting outside? Should I make an offering of some sort?

Originally posted by bbarr
It's been a great day so far, but very similar to other days. I've been writing a paper on Spinoza and his account of the proper interpretation of Scripture. I've done some laundry and played with my cats. I left the door open in case God wants to stop by, but alas. I don't know why God is playing coy with me, I invited him into my heart and home, but my he ...[text shortened]... ster, please advise! Should I try waiting outside? Should I make an offering of some sort?

Why, pray tell, would God lower Himself to live in the cesspool of your heart? What gave you the impression that He even wished to do so?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Why, pray tell, would God lower Himself to live in the cesspool of your heart? What gave you the impression that He even wished to do so?

I don't know, you tell me. Knightmeister is asking us atheists why we don't try and invite God into our hearts and lives; why we don't undertake the experiment of having faith. So, I set aside today to invite God into my heart and life. He has so far refused.

Cesspool? Tsk, tsk, tsk.

Originally posted by bbarr
I don't know, you tell me. Knightmeister is asking us atheists why we don't try and invite God into our hearts and lives; why we don't undertake the experiment of having faith. So, I set aside today to invite God into my heart and life. He has so far refused.

Cesspool? Tsk, tsk, tsk.

Knightmeister is asking us atheists why we don't try and invite God into our hearts and lives
He errors in that.

Cesspool? Tsk, tsk, tsk.
Nothing personal. We're all in the same boat.

Originally posted by bbarr
I don't know, you tell me. Knightmeister is asking us atheists why we don't try and invite God into our hearts and lives; why we don't undertake the experiment of having faith. So, I set aside today to invite God into my heart and life. He has so far refused.

Cesspool? Tsk, tsk, tsk.

How do you know he refused ? Did he tell you?

Also , did you ask sincerely or were you just playing around? I speculate that maybe you asked expecting no outcome and ended up with what you expected. God's grace is such that if there was some sincerity in your request you may get more than you bargained for. Bear in mind God won't be mocked though. I don't think he sees your heart as a cesspool though, more like a mona lisa that needs restoring.

Originally posted by knightmeister
Bear in mind God won't be mocked though.

In Atheist mode: "God, I mock you. I find your lack of consistency ridiculous." Looks like God will be mocked.

In religious mode: who are you to know the will of God?

Verdict: a truly stupid comment.

Originally posted by knightmeister
How do you know he refused ? Did he tell you?

Also , did you ask sincerely or were you just playing around? I speculate that maybe you asked expecting no outcome and ended up with what you expected. God's grace is such that if there was some sincerity in your request you may get more than you bargained for. Bear in mind God won't be mocked though. ...[text shortened]... 't think he sees your heart as a cesspool though, more like a mona lisa that needs restoring.

A Mona Lisa? You flatterer...🙂

Honestly, I don't know whether He refused. What I do know is that, as per your request, I prayed that God reveal Himself to me that day. I spent the day in quiet reflection, writing a paper on Spinoza and the interpretation of Scripture (turned out very well, thanks). I set aside that day in the hope that something would happen; that something would indicate God's presence. But the day ended up a normal day for me. I felt calm, content, and intellectually curious and stimulated. I felt loved by those around me, and I was aware of the love I feel for them. If this was God manifesting in my life, then God consistently manifests himself in my life (so why should I change what I'm doing?). If this is not God manifesting in my life, then why on Earth should I worry about God doing so (things seem great!)?

Of course I'm sincere. If God is a loving being, then why wouldn't I want Him in my life? Anyway, the offer stands. If God wants to be in my life, then all He needs to do is reveal Himself. Until then, I'll keep on keeping on.

Originally posted by ivangrice
In Atheist mode: "God, I mock you. I find your lack of consistency ridiculous." Looks like God will be mocked.

In religious mode: who are you to know the will of God?

Verdict: a truly stupid comment.

This is not mocking . You are asking a valid question. The Bible is riddled with accounts of men rallying against God trying to understand him. There is a whole Jewish tradition of getting angry with God and shouting at him. By mocking I meant more taking the michael. God knows when we are speaking from our hearts and when we are just messing about. If we pretend to ourselves we are serious when we are not we also mock ourselves. If God wasn't shrewd enough to figure this out he wouldn't be God.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect had intended for us to forgo their use."

Was Galileo wrong? Did God intend for us to not use our intellectual capacities?

If we come to one conclusion via reason and a competing conclusion via blind faith, do you think God intends for us to reject what our reason tells us? Are we making the most of God's gifts to us when we do this?

I'm not sure I understand where you get God gave us our
sense of reason, and intellect and intended us to forgo the
use of them. Why do you think that is the case?
Kelly

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
But this is ridiculous epistemology.

Not everything that is within God's power will be in accord with his will.

It would also be in within God's power to make your car ascend and fly at 800 miles per hour, but you don't rely on this when planning how long it will take you drive across the country. Or do you?

I agree that not everything that is within God's power means it will
be in accord with His will, just as it is true with us as well. The fact
that God started something would seem to me that He would have
thought through all the ends and outs of that thing, from birth rates
to when what He was doing must end.
Kelly

Originally posted by bbarr
It's been a great day so far, but very similar to other days. I've been writing a paper on Spinoza and his account of the proper interpretation of Scripture. I've done some laundry and played with my cats. I left the door open in case God wants to stop by, but alas. I don't know why God is playing coy with me, I invited him into my heart and home, but my he ...[text shortened]... ster, please advise! Should I try waiting outside? Should I make an offering of some sort?

Yes, there is one that always gets God attention, try coming to Him
properly with a sincere and willing heart, to do otherwise to jest or just
play around will get you only a laugh in this life time, and grief in the
next.
Kelly

Originally posted by bbarr
A Mona Lisa? You flatterer...🙂

Honestly, I don't know whether He refused. What I do know is that, as per your request, I prayed that God reveal Himself to me that day. I spent the day in quiet reflection, writing a paper on Spinoza and the interpretation of Scripture (turned out very well, thanks). I set aside that day in the hope that something would ...[text shortened]... life, then all He needs to do is reveal Himself. Until then, I'll keep on keeping on.ask

One possibility here is that you are either being consciously or unconsciously disingenuous with your request to God. This seems quite likely because it would be out of step with your other statements for you to say you hoped that something might happen. I would also speculate that your motivation for asking the question was inspired by your desire to further your argument for Atheism. If any of the above are true then it would not be surprising that not much happened in your eyes since that would be what you were expecting anyway. If God was a divine fruit machine who had no interest in things like motivation and sincerity then you could manipulate him in this way then , but no-one said he was. It's a good job he's not a fruit machine otherwise you might have asked God to blow up the world and we'd all be dead.

However , the other possibility is that at least part of you was being absolutely genuine (and the apparent disguised glee with which you responded to nothing happening was my imagination). In this case it would be entirely God's style to respond not with something dramatic but with something simple and down to earth. My experience is that often the answers are right there at your feet, you just don't realise it at the time. It sounded if you had a heightened awareness of the love that was in your life. It's possible that God is drawing your attention subtlely to the things that are already there in your life , things that he wouldn't want to change anyway. He might be saying something like " Ok barr , I'm going to reveal myself in the things you take for granted first because I know they are things you value , and love is a good place to start because I value that tremendously , but how about reaching out to me more genuinely next time , don't forget I can see right through you and I'm not going to let you play games with me ..that wouldn't be good for you in the long term". Anyway , what did you expect , a burning bush on your first day?

There are lots of reasons why you might not want him in your life. Loss of control of your life. God might ask you to make sacrifices. You might not like to have your self righteousness challenged. He might ask you to love someone you don't want to love , or turn your world view on it's head etc etc


So which is it? Genuine sincerity or sophisticated mind games? Fruit machines or real Spirituality? You might fool me but you won't fool God.