23 Mar 07
Originally posted by PalynkaAh, but is that fear of death, or fear of getting torn to pieces.
And yet you don't consider the possibility of not being afraid of lions when they are chasing you.
That one can live without fear through the absence of the need to face death is different of not being afraid. Again, this may sound like semantics, but not all fears need to be ever-present phobias.
Likewise, despite someone not being afraid of something, it doesn't mean that they desire for it to happen.
23 Mar 07
Originally posted by scottishinnzBoth, obviously.
Ah, but is that fear of death, or fear of getting torn to pieces.
Likewise, despite someone not being afraid of something, it doesn't mean that they desire for it to happen.
I don't desire rain if I'm not going to the beach. I don't desire eating a steak if I just had dinner. It's not the same thing at all.
PS: I'm not trying to convince anyone I'm right, this is all highly subjective. I do think people are overcharging the word fear to sound brave. One can love life, fear death and not live in fear. I think most of you are discussing about living in fear, not fearing.
23 Mar 07
Originally posted by PalynkaWhat I was saying is that if you are not "living in fear" then it is correct English to say that you do not fear death even if you would be afraid if you thought death was imminent. You were implying that it was incorrect.
And yet you don't consider the possibility of not being afraid of lions when they are chasing you.
That one can live without fear through the absence of the need to face death is different of not being afraid. Again, this may sound like semantics, but not all fears need to be ever-present phobias.
Maybe we should all be a bit more specific.
I personally do not want to die. I do not think that I am afraid of death in the same way that I would be afraid of a lion though. I am certainly not afraid of death in the same way that many Christians I know are.
23 Mar 07
Originally posted by twhiteheadUnder your definition everyone is fearless unless they're presently afraid of something: I fear nothing because I'm not currently afraid of nothing.
What I was saying is that if you are not "living in fear" then it is correct English to say that you do not fear death even if you would be afraid if you thought death was imminent. You were implying that it was incorrect.
Maybe we should all be a bit more specific.
I personally do not want to die. I do not think that I am afraid of death in the sam ...[text shortened]... on though. I am certainly not afraid of death in the same way that many Christians I know are.
Like I said, you're overcharging the word fear so you can easily refute that it applies.
23 Mar 07
Originally posted by PalynkaWhy so? I think it's because people have yet to seperate death from the cessation of consciousness, in their minds. When we talk of death we really do talk about it in the bogey-man figure sense. You mention imminent death, how do you classify imminent? I'd think it's through a process of dying, ie: a way of being killed, be it murder, disease, road accident etc. It is these processes I think people fear; the pain and suffering, the inability to have said goodbye, regret for not achieving what they wanted to in life, and with good reason. But I believe these things are secondary reasons, death itself should carry no fear, it's just the end of consciousness. These things would be feared in each situation even if death was not a certain eventuality.
I think that what Starrman said is all fine and dandy, but I actually don't believe anyone here doesn't fear death (although many won't admit it).
Transforming the meaning of fear into a phobia-like caricature about skeletons is simply avoiding the question. I seriously doubt any of us in face of the possibility of imminent death wouldn't be afraid.
There's a social aspect to death which, certainly for me, is in no small part due to religion. I was taught to fear death because judgement lay thereafter and certainly, given the view of heaven and hell I was taught, I was gambling with my soul. It took me a long time to reason this away and to realise that what I think we fear is not death, it's consequence.
23 Mar 07
1 edit
Originally posted by StarrmanIf we agree that death is the event that brings all those things about, then we must necessarily agree.
It is these processes I think people fear; the pain and suffering, the inability to have said goodbye, regret for not achieving what they wanted to in life, and with good reason. But I believe these things are secondary reasons, death itself should carry no fear, it's just the end of consciousness. These things would be feared in each situation even if death was not a certain eventuality
If one fears those things, one must necessarily fear death because death entails them all.
23 Mar 07
1 edit
Originally posted by PalynkaI don't agree that death brings these events about. These events are side effects of what brings about death. As I have suggested, if we did not know that death would be the outcome, we'd still fear them. I see it the opposite way round to you.
If we agree that death is the event that brings all those things about, then we must necessarily agree.
If one fears those things, one must necessarily fear death because death entails them all.
23 Mar 07
Originally posted by PalynkaIt is you that is not hearing me because you want me to say that I fear death. I never said that everyone is fearless unless they're presently afraid of something. I said that the word fear has different meanings depending on context. In fact fearless even "fearless" is hardly the opposite of fearful and even with that word, context is critical.
Under your definition everyone is fearless unless they're presently afraid of something: I fear nothing because I'm not currently afraid of nothing.
Like I said, you're overcharging the word fear so you can easily refute that it applies.
There is irrational fear, such as fear of a caged lion, or fear of snakes and spiders even when they cannot come close to you. I know you called those phobias, but a phobia is just an extreme fear. Fear can also be used for more rational thought processes especially one of not knowing but suspecting something might happen, like "I fear I may fall over" or "I fear I may be wrong".
But not wanting to die is not fear.
