Fellowship, Fall, Salvation:

Originally posted by leunammi
I was going to make a comment but then decided it was not worth it. 😛

Is that code for 'fear of being out argued?'

😛

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
'If any man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father or his mother… Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so you shall remove the evil from your midst, and all Israel will hear of it and fear.' (Deut. 21:18-21)

Where is this unchanging God in the NT?

You have read the NT right? Where Jesus talks about even thinking lustfull thoughts is the same as doing them in our hearts. The need for God's grace is without a doubt beyond question!

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Is that code for 'fear of being out argued?'

😛

That's all it is... an argument. Sometimes you have to choose where and when to say a thing and sometimes you have to choose when not to. For me, I hit enter and changed my mind. Thus the deletion.

Originally posted by leunammi
That's all it is... an argument. Sometimes you have to choose where and when to say a thing and sometimes you have to choose when not to. For me, I hit enter and changed my mind. Thus the deletion.

'You don't always win your battles, but it's good to know you fought.'

John Greenleaf Whittier

Originally posted by KellyJay
You have read the NT right? Where Jesus talks about even thinking lustfull thoughts is the same as doing them in our hearts. The need for God's grace is without a doubt beyond question!

“He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone.”

Again, how do you square that with:

"Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so you shall remove the evil from your midst..."

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
“He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone.”

Again, how do you square that with:

"Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so you shall remove the evil from your midst..."

Square what? God not me is going to be judging all of us. I am a sinner no different than anyone else, there is nothing about me that sets me apart from my fellow man. We are told to forgive each other, to love one another. On our own without Christ we will be left in our sins. Which is why Jesus is so important, without Him we can do nothing.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
“He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone.”

Again, how do you square that with:

"Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so you shall remove the evil from your midst..."

Jesus said it we call someone a fool we are in danger of Hell. Where do you see that anywhere else?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Square what? God not me is going to be judging all of us. I am a sinner no different than anyone else, there is nothing about me that sets me apart from my fellow man. We are told to forgive each other, to love one another. On our own without Christ we will be left in our sins. Which is why Jesus is so important, without Him we can do nothing.

Square the disparity between the old and new testament, the contradictory manifestation of the divine.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Square the disparity between the old and new testament, the contradictory manifestation of the divine.

No, again it's God moving towards our salvation.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke

“He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone.”

Again, how do you square that with:

"Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so you shall remove the evil from your midst..."

I think the point of this question is "Why didn't the Son of God show up before the book of Exodus or Leviticus ? "

Why didn't Jesus Christ show up as the redeeming "Lamb of God" before God established the offerings of lambs, goats, bulls to shed blood for the sins of the Israelites?

The short answer would be, IMO, that God is exceedingly profound in His being, His nature, His purposes and plan. And after the fall of man He progressively unveiled deep matters about Himself.

One thing God needed to establish is the awfulness of sin. Of course we do not always see the awfulness of sin. Just as a congress of rapists or thieves, if asked to come up with laws against rape or stealing, might come up with very easy laws.

1.) "Well, we rapists feel that rape is not all THAT bad. Perhaps the rapist should just be asked to do a little community service for forcing himself upon a woman. Maybe, just a scolding or reprimand would be good enough."

2.) "Well, we thieves just decide that the thief needs to apologize at least."

Question " But do you think he needs to die ? "

Answer: "No indeed. That is unless he did it to me. Then he may need some really stronger punishment."

We are not just.
We are not as just as God.

God discloses His hatred for sin and sinning. God discloses that death is deserving of the sinner. Judgment and wrath is deserving of the sinner. Upon this horrific penalty we may (I said may) as darkened as we are, appreciate that the Son of God came to be the receiver of that divine wrath in our place upon the cross.

"But why not Christ die for the sins of the world immediately after Adam fell?
But why not Christ die for us before the events of the Exodus or the establishing of a representative theocratic nation ? "

I said this would be the short answer. It hard to be short on this. The whole Old Testament Paul called "the ministry of condemnation". And the new covenant he called "the ministry of the Spirit" and also "the ministry of righteousness".

Some ground needed to be established for God's righteous condemnation of sin. Upon this needed backround manifest His love, redemption and righteous work of Jesus Christ is put in relief. He manifest God incarnate as being our Redeemer and indwelling Spirit of life to be reconciled to God. [Edited]

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Square the disparity between the old and new testament, the contradictory manifestation of the divine.

Disparity I think not, the OT is harsh, it serves as a warning, it could and will get worse.

Matthew 13: 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25: 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

You are cherry picking OT stuff you should read it all.

Psalm 82:  Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Disparity I think not, the OT is harsh, it serves as a warning, it could and will get worse.

Matthew 13: 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25: 41 ...[text shortened]... the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

The 'cherry picking' defence never holds water. The old and new testaments are divinely inspired are they not?

In which case, you need to defend every cherry.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
The 'cherry picking' defence never holds water. The old and new testaments are divinely inspired are they not?

In which case, you need to defend every cherry.

Yep

Originally posted by KellyJay
Yep

Come sir, never capitulate to an atheist.

🙂

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Come sir, never capitulate to an atheist.

🙂

I'm sorry I forgot my place! 😉