Food for Thought: Is Your Religion the Only Way

Originally posted by rwingett
How can an omniscient being have remorse? He knew ahead of time that he was going to drown everyone. He knew it when he made them.

But let's say that he did have remorse. This would indicate that god knew he had behaved wrongly, and that drowning people is not a conduct that shines favorably on a supposedly "loving" god.

But in your previous post yo ...[text shortened]... e great flood clearly contradicts this, as do a host of other incidents throughout the bible.

Once again what I was attempting to convey and what scripture is attempting to convey has been butchered. Oh well, perhaps something of worth is salvagable.

When the Bible says that God repented in making man this in no way implies that he did not know in advance that this scenerio would unfold nor does it imply wrong doing. God did nothing wrong in making man, however, man did something wrong in turning from God. When the Bible says that God repented in making man it is merely conveying that God hated to see man go down the wrong path. Just because he hated to see man go down the wrong path in no waY implicates God did not know beforehand.

As far as my previous post in which I said God smiles down upon me no matter what I do I was saying that I am covered under grace and in no way need to work for my salvation. Don't get me wrong, God hates sin but always loves the sinner. I think it pains him when we fall short much like it pains a parent when their child falls short.

Originally posted by wittywonka
The judge would punish you because the spedomoter is 2 feet from your face. I'm talking about someone who has never had [b]any chance of experiencing Christianity[/b]

I asked you a simple question, you are driving you are caught going
to fast, you did not know, does that mean you get off because you
did not know?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Would a judge fine you for speeding if you didn't know you were
going to fast on a road?
Kelly

Yes he would. But only because a Judge is not able to be sure that you did not know. If he can be sure that you did not know then it would be unjust for him to punish you.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Yes he would. But only because a Judge is not able to be sure that you did not know. If he can be sure that you did not know then it would be unjust for him to punish you.

Really, you think the judge cares if you know or don't know? I mean
you may not get slapped as bad, but you will still be held accountable.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Really, you think the judge cares if you know or don't know? I mean
you may not get slapped as bad, but you will still be held accountable.
Kelly

Of course the judge cares. It's simply a matter of whether there is enough evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you really didn't know. Let's say, for instance, that the speed limit was not posted anywhere on the road. You could then prove that you couldn't have known you were going too fast. In this instance, I think the judge would let you off because of sufficient evidence that you couldn't have known you were committing a crime.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Really, you think the judge cares if you know or don't know? I mean
you may not get slapped as bad, but you will still be held accountable.
Kelly

Whether the judge cares or not, you are not accountable (ie its not your fault) if you did not know. You may still get punished because the Judge does not know that you did not know but thats life. The judge also has other reasons for punishing you than punishment for crimes committed. The fine is also intended as a deterrent to you and others from possible further offenses and not solely as penance for crime committed. In fact I believe that the deterrence factor is the main reason.

Originally posted by wittywonka
[b]"But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be children of your Father in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous" (Matthew 5:44-45).

I think I am either misinterpreting this passage or you may not have meant to include it ...[text shortened]... Hell if the Christian god is at all omnibenevolent. It simply does not stand to logic.[/b]

I think I am either misinterpreting this passage or you may not have meant to include it. "For he makes the sun rise on the evil and the good..." Would not that imply that he will treat both the "evil" and the "good" equally? And I certainly do not think that he would punish them both...

No, I did mean to include it. The passage immediately following it was meant to be in conjunction with it:

"Do you not realize that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But by your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath, when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed" (Romans 2:4-5).

God does not save the wicked unless they repent. He is quite clear on that point. The reason why he is kind and patient with the unrighteous is to soften their hearts so they might feel remorse for their evil ways. God's spirit witnesses to and strives with every man, unrighteous and righteous, and all men are ultimately accountable to him who knows every thought of the heart:

"The LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal" (Genesis 6:3).

Originally posted by whiterose
Of course the judge cares. It's simply a matter of whether there is enough evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you really didn't know. Let's say, for instance, that the speed limit was not posted anywhere on the road. You could then prove that you couldn't have known you were going too fast. In this instance, I think the judge would let you off because of sufficient evidence that you couldn't have known you were committing a crime.

The fact remains you will get punished for that which you did not know.
Since we are left to warn each other of the dangers we face, since we
are left to care for one another, since we are our brothers keeper, the
message of warning about the coming judgment rests with us.
Kelly

Originally posted by whodey
Once again what I was attempting to convey and what scripture is attempting to convey has been butchered. Oh well, perhaps something of worth is salvagable.

When the Bible says that God repented in making man this in no way implies that he did not know in advance that this scenerio would unfold nor does it imply wrong doing. God did nothing wrong in ma think it pains him when we fall short much like it pains a parent when their child falls short.

Scripture has been butchered? By whom? How do you know it's been butchered, and if so how do you tell which parts have been butchered and which parts have not? Isn't your attempt at "salvaging" something merely an attempt to justify your own particular interpretation? Everything you agree with is authentic and every part that causes you trouble has been "butchered." Convenient how that works.

My bible says:

GEN 6:6 And the Lord was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. 7 So the Lord said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the ground, man and beast and creeping things and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them."

How is it possible for a god who knows everything in advance to be sorry about anything, or to grieve at all? He knew things would turn out exactly as they did. If he didn't like that outcome, he could have made them differently and had a different outcome. Being omnipotent, he could have had any outcome he wanted. This being "sorry" and "grieving" indicates that god is neither omniscient nor omnipotent. The passage indicates he has serious limitations in both departments. It certainly seems to me that he DIDN'T know things would turn out as they did, and that he CAN'T do very much to improve the situation. He tried the whole flood/genocide thing, but it didn't seem to have any great effect on our long term righteousness.

And what has god got against beasts and birds anyway? What did they ever do to deserve being drowned en masse? Just like when he slew all the first born of Egypt, he also slew all the first born cattle as well. What was the purpose of that? I wonder if PETA members are generally less religious than the population at large?

Originally posted by rwingett
Scripture has been butchered? By whom? How do you know it's been butchered, and if so how do you tell which parts have been butchered and which parts have not? Isn't your attempt at "salvaging" something merely an attempt to justify your own particular interpretation? Everything you agree with is authentic and every part that causes you trouble has been "bu ...[text shortened]... onder if PETA members are generally less religious than the population at large?

So this omnipotent and omnisciet God can do anything EXCEPT provide us with free will, know what are actions will be despite this free will, and feel bad that his creation has CHOSEN to fall away despite knowing beforehand? I Gottcha. 😉

Originally posted by whodey
So this omnipotent and omnisciet God can do anything EXCEPT provide us with free will, know what are actions will be despite this free will, and feel bad that his creation has CHOSEN to fall away despite knowing beforehand? I Gottcha. 😉

You got nothing, so don't pat yourself on the back too hard.

Originally posted by rwingett
You got nothing, so don't pat yourself on the back too hard.

I have nothing? Good comeback. 🙄

Originally posted by whodey
I have nothing? Good comeback. 🙄

Would you care to make an intelligible response to my prior post?

Originally posted by KellyJay
The fact remains you will get punished for that which you did not know.
Since we are left to warn each other of the dangers we face, since we
are left to care for one another, since we are our brothers keeper, the
message of warning about the coming judgment rests with us.
Kelly

And in some countries you will be hanged for no reason at all. The fact that judges or laws are imperfect in the country you are in is not a good basis for any argument.

Originally posted by twhitehead
And in some countries you will be hanged for no reason at all. The fact that judges or laws are imperfect in the country you are in is not a good basis for any argument.

So if that is the case what is the complaint, bad things happen?
If you want to claim God is being unjust in His judgment I'd say we
will have to wait and see, but then it would be to late to change.
Kelly