Free Will

@divegeester said
Yes, so sometimes god intervened in choices and other times he didn’t.

No..... people made their choice. God then assisted with consequences.

Answer this: will God prevent a person from committing a sin?

@chaney3 said
No..... people made their choice. God then assisted with consequences.

No, the wise men made their choice and God intervened.

@divegeester said
“God saves. Forgiveness received is forgiveness bestowed.”

What does that even mean?

I wrote that based on the context from which BigDogg's statement "He only saved me from the consequences of my bad decision" is taken.

God saves man from the "consequences" of sin(bad decision making), which is death.

That salvation is granted(grace) by God and received(faith) by the sinner when the sinner acknowledges his guilt. Otherwise forgiveness is not bestowed.

Salvation is given when it is received, so, therefore "forgiveness received is forgiveness bestowed."

@divegeester said
No, the wise men made their choice and God intervened.

The wise men were warned by God and subsequently chose to heed that warning.

Otherwise they probably would have gone back to Herod and told him where the real king of Israel was.

@josephw said
I wrote that based on the context from which BigDogg's statement "He only saved me from the consequences of my bad decision" is taken.

God saves man from the "consequences" of sin(bad decision making), which is death.

That salvation is granted(grace) by God and received(faith) by the sinner when the sinner acknowledges his guilt. Otherwise forgiveness is not bestowed.
...[text shortened]... alvation is given when it is received, so, therefore "forgiveness received is forgiveness bestowed."

Oh I see now… Like a Christmas present given is a Christmas present received.

Deep wisdom 🙄

@josephw said
The wise men were warned by God and subsequently chose to heed that warning.

Otherwise they probably would have gone back to Herod and told him where the real king of Israel was.

Correct.
Not sure what dive is talking about.

God gives advice all the time (it's called the Bible), yet how many choose to follow the advice?

@josephw said
Bingo!

God saves. Forgiveness received is forgiveness bestowed.

I like the "Bingo!" even though it's a blatant pivot away from the existing conversation. [And back into the usual marketing shtick. Still selling that same used car!]

@chaney3 said
At this moment, I have nothing Biblical to support my position.

However, I am certain that some sermons I've listened to deem free will vital, and the fact that God gave us the choice means He will not interfere with our choice. If He did, it's no longer a choice.

Some Christians believe that their god knows exactly what's going to happen from now to eternity, (you know, the omniscience thing) which makes the whole business of free will obsolete. If that isn't the case on the other hand, and to take an extreme example, they didn't disarm the release button when the bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, so unimaginable suffering was allowed to go ahead unimpeded.

So the Christian god either made the Hiroshima bomb happen or did nothing to stop it, the other possibility of course being that there isn't a god, in which case neither applies.

@divegeester said
Oh I see now… Like a Christmas present given is a Christmas present received.

Deep wisdom 🙄

I suppose that analogy would work, that is if one was explaining the concept to a small child.

@bigdogg said
I like the "Bingo!" even though it's a blatant pivot away from the existing conversation. [And back into the usual marketing shtick. Still selling that same used car!]

Try to be a bit more flexible with regards to the conversation.

Interesting though is your admission that one can make "bad decisions" with "consequences" yet deny accountability to your maker.

Your "shtick" hasn't changed much either.

@josephw said
I suppose that analogy would work, that is if one was explaining the concept to a small child.

It’s a perfect analogy for the silly thing you posted.

@chaney3 said
Correct.
Not sure what dive is talking about.

What is it I’m saying that you don’t understand?

@divegeester said
It’s a perfect analogy for the silly thing you posted.

True to form divegeester. To you the salvation of God is "silly".

You're obviously ashamed to talk about it, except in derogatory terms.

@chaney3 said
Correct.
Not sure what dive is talking about.

God gives advice all the time (it's called the Bible), yet how many choose to follow the advice?

You are correct as well.

Divegeester isn't sure either.

@divegeester said
What is it I’m saying that you don’t understand?

I'm proposing that God does NOT interfere with our choices. He gave us a freedom to choose, and we obviously have consequences with our choices.

You are insisting, for some reason, that God does interfere with our choices. Why?

As Indonesia Phil pointed out above, God let the Hiroshima bombing happen. He did not interfere with the choices made to drop it. And that's one example of thousands and thousands that occur daily.

God knew of the choice that the mother and daughter made to request the head of John the Baptist. God knew that the king would honor their request, and John was beheaded. God didn't intervene.